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question about spell immunity
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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 2463636" data-attributes="member: 30610"><p>Actually, I would rule that it is considered a different spell. My interpretation therefore strengthens Heighten Spell and does not weaken it.</p><p></p><p>See, where this differs from a druid or cleric flamestrike is the fact that once you have, say, a heightened magic missile that is 5th level, there IS no lower level version of it anywhere. It has become a different, although very similar, spell. Heighten spell even mentions that it is different from other metamagic feats in this regard; a Heightened Magic Missile IS NO LONGER Magic Missile, the first level spell. It is a fifth level spell that behaves as magic missile. It does not exist as a fourth, third, second, or first level spell; it is Magic Missile Heightened To Fifth Level.</p><p></p><p>By contrast, one can say that flamestrike is essentially a fourth level spell, and a cleric happens to require a fifth level slot for it because his primary focus is not as close to that particular manipulation of elemental fire as a druid's.</p><p></p><p>I mentioned in a post above that it's possible for a druid to prepare flamestrike as a 5th level spell without Heighten Metamagic. In that case, I would still consider it the regular flamestrike. Only with the use of Heighten Metamagic (and no other metamagic, since other metamagics do not change the spell in the same way) would I consider it a different spell.</p><p></p><p>Now, as to the first part of your post, where you view Spell Immunity as "a safe bet:" Spell Immunity is never a safe bet at all. What guarantee do you have that the enemy will cast flame strike? Maybe they'd rather summon animals. In the case of a druid, they could just as easily have prepared ice storm, a similarly destructive spell. Mages can choose between lightning bolt, hold person, and fireball for their third-level slot, and I'm only mentioning the most popular choices. With all the splatbooks, there are <em>dozens</em> of decent offensive spells that one can cast in any given slot. The chance of you actually guessing right is pretty remote, unless your DM is really that predictable.</p><p></p><p>Now, that being said, there is one case in which SI is a safe bet: when your own team casts an area spell. If you want to fireball in combat and don't want to hurt your own tank, then SI:fireball is the spell for the job. But it is manifestly useless for everything else compared to globe or SR, for the reasons I just outlined. </p><p></p><p>Consider this: Protection from Energy will give you 12 points of fire protection/level for a lower level spell slot, making SI pretty inefficient. Why would you waste a 4th level spell slot when a lower level slot does the job? A fireball can at most do 60 damage, and when you are first able to cast Protection from Energy (Fire) you're 5th level (as it's a 3rd level spell.) That means that right off the bat you can protect entirely from a maximized fireball, or two average fireballs, and by the time you're thinking of using SI, you get even more protection for that third level spell slot. Additionally, PFE:F will protect from ALL fire damage, not just that one puny spell, so if you cast it and then you have to switch your plans up, it'll still be around to absorb a scorching ray sent at your tank. It's MUCH more useful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 2463636, member: 30610"] Actually, I would rule that it is considered a different spell. My interpretation therefore strengthens Heighten Spell and does not weaken it. See, where this differs from a druid or cleric flamestrike is the fact that once you have, say, a heightened magic missile that is 5th level, there IS no lower level version of it anywhere. It has become a different, although very similar, spell. Heighten spell even mentions that it is different from other metamagic feats in this regard; a Heightened Magic Missile IS NO LONGER Magic Missile, the first level spell. It is a fifth level spell that behaves as magic missile. It does not exist as a fourth, third, second, or first level spell; it is Magic Missile Heightened To Fifth Level. By contrast, one can say that flamestrike is essentially a fourth level spell, and a cleric happens to require a fifth level slot for it because his primary focus is not as close to that particular manipulation of elemental fire as a druid's. I mentioned in a post above that it's possible for a druid to prepare flamestrike as a 5th level spell without Heighten Metamagic. In that case, I would still consider it the regular flamestrike. Only with the use of Heighten Metamagic (and no other metamagic, since other metamagics do not change the spell in the same way) would I consider it a different spell. Now, as to the first part of your post, where you view Spell Immunity as "a safe bet:" Spell Immunity is never a safe bet at all. What guarantee do you have that the enemy will cast flame strike? Maybe they'd rather summon animals. In the case of a druid, they could just as easily have prepared ice storm, a similarly destructive spell. Mages can choose between lightning bolt, hold person, and fireball for their third-level slot, and I'm only mentioning the most popular choices. With all the splatbooks, there are [i]dozens[/i] of decent offensive spells that one can cast in any given slot. The chance of you actually guessing right is pretty remote, unless your DM is really that predictable. Now, that being said, there is one case in which SI is a safe bet: when your own team casts an area spell. If you want to fireball in combat and don't want to hurt your own tank, then SI:fireball is the spell for the job. But it is manifestly useless for everything else compared to globe or SR, for the reasons I just outlined. Consider this: Protection from Energy will give you 12 points of fire protection/level for a lower level spell slot, making SI pretty inefficient. Why would you waste a 4th level spell slot when a lower level slot does the job? A fireball can at most do 60 damage, and when you are first able to cast Protection from Energy (Fire) you're 5th level (as it's a 3rd level spell.) That means that right off the bat you can protect entirely from a maximized fireball, or two average fireballs, and by the time you're thinking of using SI, you get even more protection for that third level spell slot. Additionally, PFE:F will protect from ALL fire damage, not just that one puny spell, so if you cast it and then you have to switch your plans up, it'll still be around to absorb a scorching ray sent at your tank. It's MUCH more useful. [/QUOTE]
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