Question on a dragon's crush attack - can it do this?

[zendruid]

By your quote from the Draconomicon they all roll individually against his one roll. So no the PC's are effectively stuck. I'd guess a natural 20 may still let them out. Not sure about natural 20's on grapples it's never been an issue for me since I've been playing 3.x. Then again I have never been crushed by a dragon or engaged in a grapple with something that has a +58 grapple mod.

 

[NewJeffCT]

By your quote from the Draconomicon they all roll individually against his one roll. So no the PC's are effectively stuck. I'd guess a natural 20 may still let them out. Not sure about natural 20's on grapples it's never been an issue for me since I've been playing 3.x. Then again I have never been crushed by a dragon or engaged in a grapple with something that has a +58 grapple mod.

well, would have been interesting to see all 3 do it, just to give them a chance.

Just last session, I had a few ogre bruisers (Ogres with 5 levels of barbarian) as minions of the bad guys to grapple spellcasters & the like, and the party cleric managed to power her way out of a grapple by rolling a natural 20 vs my roll of a 3 or a 4.

 

[Amazing Mumford]

No, I don't believe the "natural 20" / "natural 1" rules apply to a grapple-- it could be house-ruled though, I guess-- but otherwise it's gonna VERY HARD to escape from underneath a dragon who has a +58 to his grapple check. As well it should be! Your PC would need a +40 grapple check at least and have to roll a 20 when the dragon rolls a 1.

Again though, against that large of a party, it could be a good idea for the dragon if he can afford to take the -20-- that would give the dragon a +38, which still would be very hard to overcome. The dragon wins this check with it's first attack, then can dole out it's others against whoever it wants-- even using it's natural attacks to hasten the death of those crushed underneath it. Not a good day for those folks.

There are a few magical ways to escape though, I believe dimension door would be an option, and if I were a cleric you can bet I'd have a word of recall memorized. Also, there are magic items, one in particular I believe from the MIC called the Anklet of Translocation, I think... Also, don't discount freedom of movement or the Travel domain...

 

[Amazing Mumford]

Or does the dragon even need to use it's first attack to maintain the pin? Is that a seperate roll??

 

[frankthedm]

Just last session, I had a few ogre bruisers (Ogres with 5 levels of barbarian) as minions of the bad guys to grapple spellcasters & the like, and the party cleric managed to power her way out of a grapple by rolling a natural 20 vs my roll of a 3 or a 4.

monster manual III has a "skullcrusher ogre" that starts with improved grapple as a bonus feat. Unpleasant foes that should work nicely for grab-ass shutdown tactics