Question (Potential Breaking Combo)

[Runestar]

Didn't custserv rule something about large+ creatures being treated as leaving every square they occupied if they moved?

For example, orcus occupies 4x4, or 16 squares. This means that he is leaving 16 squares when he moves even 5ft. By custserv's ruling, it suggests that effects like blood pulse trigger 16 times for each square you succeed in pushing orcus.

Would the same logic apply here? An effect triggering once for each square of the monster which enters the affected area?

 

[Hypersmurf]

"The spaces occupied by the blade barrier are difficult terrain."

Sounds like each square is considered a space.

It does say "spaces", but it's contrary to how the term is used elsewhere; everywhere else discussing difficult terrain defines "squares of difficult terrain", not "spaces of difficult terrain". And "space" is used to refer to collections of squares: "A creature is considered to occupy the square or squares within its space", "An ogre takes up a space 2 squares by 2 squares", "shift so your space includes at least one square the target just left", and so on.

-Hyp.

 

[Torchlyte]

It does say "spaces", but it's contrary to how the term is used elsewhere; everywhere else discussing difficult terrain defines "squares of difficult terrain", not "spaces of difficult terrain". And "space" is used to refer to collections of squares: "A creature is considered to occupy the square or squares within its space", "An ogre takes up a space 2 squares by 2 squares", "shift so your space includes at least one square the target just left", and so on.

-Hyp.

I think, actually, 'space' here refers to the square at ground level and the square above it. This would mean that there are five spaces.

Edit.

From a RAI satndpoint... running through 5 squares of blades is going to hurt more than running through one square of blades.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think, actually, 'space' here refers to the square at ground level and the square above it. This would mean that there are five spaces.

I think "space" means the area of the wall, and "spaces" was a typo that should read "squares".

-Hyp.

 

[FadedC]

I think, actually, 'space' here refers to the square at ground level and the square above it. This would mean that there are five spaces.

Edit.

From a RAI satndpoint... running through 5 squares of blades is going to hurt more than running through one square of blades.

I'm not sure about the RAI......it's true it makes more sense but the RAI are often more concerned about game balance. As for the space thing, where in the rules are you coming up with that justification?

On a side note, wouldn't somebody slid into a blade barrier get to make a save or go prone? Or does that not apply to being slid into conjurations?

 

[Torchlyte]

I'm not sure about the RAI......it's true it makes more sense but the RAI are often more concerned about game balance. As for the space thing, where in the rules are you coming up with that justification?

It's just reasoning. If there must be multiple spaces and a space is more than one square, the example I gave is the most logical definition of space for this power.

 

[FadedC]

It's just reasoning. If there must be multiple spaces and a space is more than one square, the example I gave is the most logical definition of space for this power.

I have to disagree, I'm going to side with hypersmurf that there's no evidence at all for every square being counted as a space, and there is quite a bit of evidence for the contrary.

 

[Hypersmurf]

On a side note, wouldn't somebody slid into a blade barrier get to make a save or go prone? Or does that not apply to being slid into conjurations?

It applies if the forced movement would cause you to fall (PHB p284 and p286.)

It's just reasoning. If there must be multiple spaces and a space is more than one square, the example I gave is the most logical definition of space for this power.

Consider the wording of Wall of Fire. It refers to "the wall's space", singular, not "one of the wall's spaces", and also refers to "a square occupied by the wall". The term 'space' is singular in reference to the wall, while there is more than one square. Which fits perfectly with the way "space" is used elsewhere in the rules.

Now consider Blade Barrier. Again, it refers to "the barrier's space", singular. The only anomaly is the single sentence describing the difficult terrain, using the word 'spaces'. If this is replaced with 'squares', there's no problem. If it isn't, then we're left with Blade Barrier using the word "space" in a way that it isn't used anywhere else in the rules.

-Hyp.

 

[Torchlyte]

It applies if the forced movement would cause you to fall (PHB p284 and p286.)



Consider the wording of Wall of Fire. It refers to "the wall's space", singular, not "one of the wall's spaces", and also refers to "a square occupied by the wall". The term 'space' is singular in reference to the wall, while there is more than one square. Which fits perfectly with the way "space" is used elsewhere in the rules.

Now consider Blade Barrier. Again, it refers to "the barrier's space", singular. The only anomaly is the single sentence describing the difficult terrain, using the word 'spaces'. If this is replaced with 'squares', there's no problem. If it isn't, then we're left with Blade Barrier using the word "space" in a way that it isn't used anywhere else in the rules.

-Hyp.

I've been trying to think of a specific term that describes this situation, where one side considers a clause to be redundant while the other side insists that because it's there the clause must have meaning. Gah, there's totally a technical term for it...

 

[FadedC]

I've been trying to think of a specific term that describes this situation, where one side considers a clause to be redundant while the other side insists that because it's there the clause must have meaning. Gah, there's totally a technical term for it...

I thought it was just called a D&D rules discussion