Question (Potential Breaking Combo)

[Goumindong]

In the same way that the restriction on the direction you can Pull or Push a creature applies to each square of movement, the lack of restriction on the direction you can Slide a creature applies to each square of movement.

-Hyp.

The point was not the direction but that you cannot go in multiple directions.

I.E.

The push(x= player, y=enemy, >= path)

....>.>.
xy>>.>.>
........>>

while moving only squares away would still be an illegal push because it goes in multiple directions. I.E. you need to be able to make a reasonable straight line approximation of the move.

Were I DMing i would instantly veto any attempt to yoyo someone in/out of a zone spell or well, yo-yo someone at all.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Sometimes you need to push foes in a zig zag pattern, 'cos those are the only unoccupied squares available (and you resolve one attack at a time).
Feel free to rule that way, but it is not 4e.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The point was not the direction but that you cannot go in multiple directions.

Each square you slide them, they're only moving in one direction.

If I Push someone five squares, there's certainly nothing stopping me pushing them in a zig-zag; the restriction is that they must end up further from me each square they move. If I Push them NE-NW-NE-NW-NE, each square they move is further from me, and so they're satisfying the restriction on Push. Push doesn't use the word "direction", or the phrase "straight line", or "reasonable approximation"; the Push restriction is explicitly phrased per square.

Push: When you push a creature, each square you move it must place it farther away from you.

Your example above is a legal 8-square Push.

If I Slide someone five squares, there's no restriction on the direction they move. I can Slide them N-S-N-S-N, because there's no restriction to prevent it.

-Hyp.

 

[Mongolia Jones]

I believe you only hit your opponent when you make an attack roll.

Coup de Grace -- No d20 roll, automatic "Hit"

 

[Kordeth]

Coup de Grace -- No d20 roll, automatic "Hit"

Coup de Grace is not an automatic hit in 4E, it's an automatic crit if you hit. Personally, I'll be houseruling the following addition to the Coup de Grace action:

"Miss: Inflict the power's normal Hit damage. This effect replaces any outcome the attack normally has on a miss."

But by RAW, you still have to roll to hit with a coup de grace.

 

[Danceofmasks]

You do make an attack roll for coup de grace.
You simply automatically crit if you hit.

edit: Ninja'd

 

[Mongolia Jones]

The way we play blade barrier (or wall of fire) is that damage only occurs during the target's turn. So that a target will only be damaged if he starts his turn in a blade barrier, or enters the the blade barrier space(s) during his turn.

Also, we count the whole space as a single "zone", and you can only be damaged by a zone once on your turn. So that if you run through 5 squares or "wobble" in and out 3 times, you only take damage once.

It has worked pretty good for us, plus the wall powers still seem to one of the best choices with our house rule.

 

[Skyscraper]

Would the "catching yourself" rule (page 286) that allows a saving throw if you are forced over a pit or precipice be a good house rule to apply in the case of the target being forced into a damaging zone effect? A forced movement ability appears like a simple tactical and frequent ability to me. If this ability can be used ad nauseam to deal important amounts of damage when combined with damaging AoE powers, would it be excessive? Or just interesting?

I also checked something... If you slide a creature into a wall, you could arguably lose line of sight to it. Perhaps not with Blade Barrier (debatable), but most probably with Wall of Fire. However, per page 285, forced movement does not require that you have line to sight to it, only line of effect. So, you could slide a creature along a AoE that prevents you from seeing the creature (as long as the AoE is not considered an "obstacle").

Sky

 

[Danceofmasks]

It's cool with one zone and one slide.
It's downright broken with 3+ overlapping zones, multiple forced movement options (including teh silly minions of malbolge), even a blood mage or two.

 

[Goumindong]

It's cool with one zone and one slide.
It's downright broken with 3+ overlapping zones, multiple forced movement options (including teh silly minions of malbolge), even a blood mage or two.

Only the strongest damage from an overlapping zone applies. So that isn't a big deal. Its just broken when you start yo-yo'ing enemies in and out of it without spell accuracy.

Sometimes you need to push foes in a zig zag pattern, 'cos those are the only unoccupied squares available (and you resolve one attack at a time).
Feel free to rule that way, but it is not 4e.

Forced movement ignores occupied squares. So long as the end point is unoccupied there is no problem with shoving someone through an enemy or friendly.

You can only not push through blocked squares, such as where a pillar or wall might be. Theoretically you can even use push/pull/slide powers to move friendlies across pits so long as the start and end point are on solid ground(as the power resolves instantly and nothing prevents you from pushing over a pit, only through barriers)

I am sorry, but 7d6+11(AoE at will 1/day) is too much for a power to do even if its an at will coupled with a daily at level 7(Possible with the right gear/stats to do 10d6+13)