Questions about Horrid Wilting

[HEL Pit Fiend]

1. The DMG states (pg 95-96) that 8th level arcane spells which affect multiple creatures have a damage cap of 20 dice of damage. In the description of the spell the max dice is 25d8.... anyone know why, other than "just because"?

2. If Horrid Wilting is cast as a divine spell (aquired through the water domain), what would the damage dice limit be then (10, 12, or 13 dice)? Note that a d8 damage die for divine spells is equal to 2 dice (DMG pg 96).

3. As a GM how would you rule the effect of Horrid Wilting on creatures that are devoid of water, like fire elementals?

 

[Henrix]

1. The guidelines in the DMG are just that, guidelines. Not hard rules. And they are guidelines for creating new spells, not for spells already in the game.

2. Horrid Wilting works as per the description, regardless of whether it is cast by a divine or arcane spellcaster.
It is a domain spell, which evidently are allowed to diverge from the guidelines.

3. I'd probably say that it has no effect on Fire Elementals.

 

[Jeremy]

Wow. Good questions.

1. Because the DMG was written after the PHB. Change it if you like, leave it if you like.

2. Same reason here is my guess. Again, I'd leave it. Give Water Clerics their glory.

3. I'd say if the DM can justify to himself that it has no water (like undead, constructs, or most elementals) then it ignores the spell.

 

[Henrix]

Constructs and Undead are automatically immune to this spell, as they are to all spells that demand a Fortitude save and do not specifically target objects.

They are not even targetable, as the spell only targets 'living creatures'.

 

[gvbezoff]

There is something perhaps worth mentioning about Horrid Wilting. It does not affect an area. It affects one or more target creatures within an area. Each victim of the spell must be seen by, and individually targetted by, the caster. Therefore, Spell Turning is effective on Horrid Wilting. Now, suppose a caster targets Horrid Wilting upon three different creatures with Spell Turning. Does the caster get to eat 75d8 damage from the turned spells? Or is the damage capped at 25d8? I would tend to argue the latter is most within the spirit of the rules, but it sure would be fun to sting that caster for 75d8. I want to see the look on his face.

 

[LordAO]

I know spell turning doesn't affect area spells, but can it really deflect spells which target more than one creature?

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

There is something perhaps worth mentioning about Horrid Wilting. It does not affect an area. It affects one or more target creatures within an area. Each victim of the spell must be seen by, and individually targetted by, the caster.

I think there is an errata somewhere, don't remember where I saw it. They changed wording of the spell to "30 foot radius", thus it is an area spell now.

 

[gfunk]

1. The DMG states (pg 95-96) that 8th level arcane spells which affect multiple creatures have a damage cap of 20 dice of damage. In the description of the spell the max dice is 25d8.... anyone know why, other than "just because"?

In the Epic Level Handbook, this is mentioned specifically and the damage cap is not errata. A high level character that casts an Intensifed [epic metamagic] Horrid Wilting does 400 hp of damage.

Woo hoo!

 

[LordAO]

Does anyone here know any reason you would want meteor swarm over horrid wilting? I already realize "for undead or constructs", but seriously, meteor swarm seems like a pathetic 9th level spell. 24d6 to one creature, 12d6 (at most) to everyone else in a rather small area. Is there something I'm missing? If not, give me an empowered fireball or horrid wilting any day!

 

[gfunk]

Does anyone here know any reason you would want meteor swarm over horrid wilting? I already realize "for undead or constructs", but seriously, meteor swarm seems like a pathetic 9th level spell. 24d6 to one creature, 12d6 (at most) to everyone else in a rather small area. Is there something I'm missing?

A couple of points you have overlooked:

1) If the meteor hits a target before exploding (and you can hit four individual targets with 24d6 meteors), then it does 24d6 points of damage to a single target (no save). Horrid Wilting has a save.

2) As mentioned above, Horrid Wilting is subject to Spell Turning whereas Meteor Swarm is not.

3) *edited out* I re-read your post and saw you mentioned Undead and Constructs

4) With Horrid Wilting, your enemies must be relatively close together, whereas Meteor Swarm can cover a much larger area.

5) If you have an Energy Substitution feat you can tailor the damage of the Meteor Swarm. Running up against some Half-Fiend Fire Giants with 10 levels of Barbarain? Give' four of 'em a [Cold] Meteor Swarm. That's 24d6x2 of cold damage w/o a save (That's 154 hp of damage a pop!).