Questions about Spellfire

[Green Blade]

Ok, now for those of you have have taken the time to buy both the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Magic of Faerun accessory, please take the time to answer a few questions regarding that wonderful thing called Spellfire .

Now the way I see it, if you take the Spellfire Weilder feat at first level you are doing yourself a world of good, that is if your DM will allow you to have it. I am sure no DM is going to allow 6 Spellfire weilders to run around the countryside at first level and have a chance at taking out an enclave of red wizards.

Anyway. I think that the idea that any class can take the spellfire feat is proposterous and dangerous. First proposterous: If you are not aware of the Weave how can you wield the raw power of it with any skill? If I were a DM I would make it mandatory that in order to take the Spellfire Wielder feat, you must choose a class that has or will have access to spells of some manner. (Sor/Wiz/Clr/Pal/Bar/Ran/Dru). If you do not start out in one of these classes, it is my opinion that Spellfire should be off limits on the sheer idea that in that class you will never have access to the weave. Furthermore there is little mention of Shadow Weave users and Spellfire. Now you lose access to the Weave if you use Shadow Weave, shouldn't you also lose your spellfire? I mean I know the book says that it is a supernatural ability and not a spell like ability, but it is affected by items and spells that normally do not affect supernatural abilities. That is also a basis for why you have to be from a casting class to get Spellfire in the first place.

Now Dangerous: I first started playing with the idea of a sorceror who had spellfire. I rolled him up, got a 17 CON and then took a toad for my familiar (+2 to COn) giving me a grand total of 19 CON. Add in my mere 1 level of experience and If I am fully loaded with spellfire energy I can deal out a total of 20d6 at one enemy, at first level. Now this is just cool for Wiz/Sor who start out relatively weak. Think about a fighter with this feat. A fighter who can stand in the front and absorb 4 fireballs and then turn that energy around and unleash it. Dangerous. Deadly.

I would be willing to grant Spellfire to a non casting class if they were willing to take an EL of +2. That might even out the fighter taking Spellfire Wielder and Weapon Focus: Spellfire at first level.

Is it possible to Specialize in Spellfire? If you can focus in it, the description for spellfire and Weapon Specialization do not forbid it. Just a question.

Anyway just my thoughts on what is IMHO one of the coolest options in the new FRCS

 

[Nightfall]

Personally I've never been a big fan of spellfire. Loved the book, not sure I care to see it in my games. Course it's alright if my NPCs have it. Just on VERY rare occasions.

 

[TBoarder]

If I were a DM I would make it mandatory that in order to take the Spellfire Wielder feat, you must choose a class that has or will have access to spells of some manner. (Sor/Wiz/Clr/Pal/Bar/Ran/Dru). If you do not start out in one of these classes, it is my opinion that Spellfire should be off limits on the sheer idea that in that class you will never have access to the weave.

I don't think that's how Spellfire is meant to work in the Realms. Shadrill was a Rogue when she found out she had Spellfire. I'm not sure how the new rules are going to reflect her now though. In 2nd edition, she stayed a 1st level thief forever. I guess her 6hp were meant to be a "balancing factor".

I would be willing to grant Spellfire to a non casting class if they were willing to take an EL of +2. That might even out the fighter taking Spellfire Wielder and Weapon Focus: Spellfire at first level.

I'd think an ECL of +2 is kinda low for virtual immunity to magic. I'd put it at +3 or +4, depending on how you believe the lessened hit points, feats, and skill points will affect the character.

Is it possible to Specialize in Spellfire? If you can focus in it, the description for spellfire and Weapon Specialization do not forbid it. Just a question.

I don't see why not. A Fighter/Spellfire Weilder seems like it would make for a deadly adversary. Lots of wasted skill points if a PC tried going this road though... what use would a warrior have with 2 ranks of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) and 8 ranks of Concentration? Would probably be an extremely one-dimensional character.

Now my question is... how would Spellfire react to Shadow Magic?

 

[Green Blade]

I don't think that's how Spellfire is meant to work in the Realms. Shadrill was a Rogue when she found out she had Spellfire. I'm not sure how the new rules are going to reflect her now though. In 2nd edition, she stayed a 1st level thief forever. I guess her 6hp were meant to be a "balancing factor".

Well it isn't how it works in the relams according to Magic of Faerun. Spellfire users really suffer no penalty for using it. I do not see a balancing factor anywhere in it. The only thing that I can really think of to balance it is the ECL as we have both mentioned.

As for how the book says it works and how I think it should work, well I am only going to get published on message boards.

Spellfire is half fire energy and half raw magical energy (i.e. raw weave). Now it says that creatures that are immune to fire only take half damage. My only problem is how does a character who has no idea on how to utilize the weave effectivly know how to control their spellfire.

Maybe if a fighter had a % chance to misfire or something of that nature and that percentage went down with level. Maybe something along those lines would make it sit better with me as an available to all feat. It just seems like you are putting alot of power out there and for a class that is already powerful at 1st level (as far as 1st level PC's are really powerful), adding something like that to the mix would just further unbalance things. Just my opinion though.

 

[Nightfall]

Probably just not affect the shadow wielder IF he's in a zone of pure shadow weave. At least that's my take on it.

 

[Green Blade]

Probably just not affect the shadow wielder IF he's in a zone of pure shadow weave. At least that's my take on it.

Well it would depend on a few things. Does the fire portion of Spellfire draw its elemental energy from the weave?

I would have to read a little more on it to make sure how it would really work.

But here is an idea for you to chew on in the mean time. Spellfire draws at least half of its power from raw weave energy. So what if there was an equivalent called shadowfire that drew at least half of its energy from the shadow weave?

Just a thought...

 

[TBoarder]

Well it isn't how it works in the relams according to Magic of Faerun. Spellfire users really suffer no penalty for using it. I do not see a balancing factor anywhere in it. The only thing that I can really think of to balance it is the ECL as we have both mentioned.

I think you misunderstood my point. What I was trying to say is that I belive Spellfire is meant to be usable by anyone, regardless of their class's ability to access the weave. I used Shandrill as my example. She doesn't have 3E stats though. The whole "How did they try to balance her for 2E" was just a semi-related tangent. I very much prefer giving a Spellfire weilder an ECL rather than sticking him or her at 1st level for their entire career. From now on, I'll keep 2E out of the discussion.

But here is an idea for you to chew on in the mean time. Spellfire draws at least half of its power from raw weave energy. So what if there was an equivalent called shadowfire that drew at least half of its energy from the shadow weave?

Wow... I really like this idea. Mind if I steal it?

 

[Green Blade]

Wow... I really like this idea. Mind if I steal it?

Be my guest. I was thinking that instead of a healing ability like Spellfire, our "Shadowfire" could do something like take away 2HP per level without chance for save on a successful touch attack or something along those lines.

Also what would make up the other half of it. Elertrical energy? Negative Energy? thoughts?

 

[Aloïsius]

This dead horse has already been beated on the official board.

*You can't use spellfire to absorb a fireball. Impossible. For using spellfire, you must ready an action, AND the spell must be TARGETED at YOU. So spellfire will be useless against fireball, color spray, meteor swarm, cloud kill, summon monsters ...

*Spell fire use Raw Energy, the weave is the normal way to access Raw Energy in the realms. Spellfire is an alternative to the weave, so no shadowfire (alas, the idea was cool) and no problem of dead magic zone. (think like a programmer : spell>arcane or divine magic>the weave>raw energy ; spellfire>raw energy)

*If you carefully read the feat and spellfire rule, you will see that it isn't as unbalancing, and surely is not worth a +2 ECL. It is mostly useless in most situation, and you will have a hard time to load yourself "to the max" : it is impossible to ready an action and cast a spell in the same time. You will need the help of another spellcaste. You know what ? The wizard will never sacrifice a 1 level spell slot, allowing you to do 1d6 damage (with ranged touch attack and a save...), when he can do 5d4+5 damage with a magic missile (with no save, and 100% accuracy) or cast a sleep (=death for the low level critters)

*try to use spellfire attack against a monk or a rogue. You are dead. (evasion...)

*don't forget : if you ever use your power without a lot of caution, you will be hunted by everyone and their mothers. And because this real rpg and not a silly novel, you are dead. (don't hope to be able to destroy a dracolich with spellfire: it will laugh one round, and kill you after that)

 

[Chosen of Mystra]

This dead horse has already been beated on the official board.

First of all I am so tired of seeing this or its equivalent on the boards. Who cares if the topic has been discussed. Some people are new, some people may have just gotten into DnD or d20 and just might have questions. Attitudes like that one are the kind that keeps the numbers of rolepaying faithful low. I encourage people to ask as many questions as they like and ask the same questions over and over, you know fresh perspectives are good things.

*You can't use spellfire to absorb a fireball. Impossible. For using spellfire, you must ready an action, AND the spell must be TARGETED at YOU. So spellfire will be useless against fireball, color spray, meteor swarm, cloud kill, summon monsters ...

Well now as it states in DnD books everywhere, The informationm presented in rulebooks and accessories are more guidlines than hard and fast rules and most interpretations are the domain of the DM. So in this case the DM would have to decide if the text in Magic of Faerun means that the spell must be specificly designated to target you or if the wording "absorb a spell targeted at them" means that the Spellfire Wielder can just simply be in the AOE of the spell. If the latter were applied Spellfire would be quite useful. It is as it always is, up to the DM and the game you play in as they are all different.

The wizard will never sacrifice a 1 level spell slot, allowing you to do 1d6 damage (with ranged touch attack and a save...), when he can do 5d4+5 damage with a magic missile (with no save, and 100% accuracy) or cast a sleep (=death for the low level critters)

Now I disagree with this one completely. A wizard who has the option of wasting a 1st level spot at a low level to cast magic missle might prefer to use his spellfire ability on the chance (Reflex half DC20) that he can do a substantial amount of damage to a target. I thik Spellfire is a really good tool, especially for lower level users of the art.

*try to use spellfire attack against a monk or a rogue. You are dead. (evasion...)

Evasion is not a guarantee

*don't forget : if you ever use your power without a lot of caution, you will be hunted by everyone and their mothers. And because this real rpg and not a silly novel, you are dead. (don't hope to be able to destroy a dracolich with spellfire: it will laugh one round, and kill you after that)

I agree and disagree. Yes you will be hunted if you use your ability without care. Practitioners of the Art, especially those silly Thayan Wizards have always been curious to understand the nature of Spellfire.

I do not think anything is indestructable and I don't think a Dracolich will shrug off 40d6 of Spellfire damage coming from a 20L SOR.

As always Dungeons and Dragons is a game of interpretation and no ones opinion lack value. Some things might work well for some Dungeon Master and some things might not. This is on of those things that will be different for everyone.


Ohhhh.... Raw magic power is greater than the Weave. The Weave is a resource of "refined magical power" But they are related, so the Shadow Weave idea would also be up to interpretation of the material presented in the books. But I have beat the point to the ground I think......