QUick question - Push effects do not to be in line right?

[Dr_Sage]

Silly doubt:

My DM said, and I now tend to agree, that a push effect does not need to be "in line", its enough that you move the target "away from you every square".


Lets use the keypad numbers to give an example:

(7) (8) (9)_______
(4) (5) (6)_| | |__
(1) (2) (3)


Lets say you are in the position (4) and your opponent is in position (5). Behind him, position (6) is still safe ground. You are fighting an orc on a narrow bridge (1 square wide), and all the other numbers represent "a fall over the cliff".

If you bull rush the orc, he must be pushed to position (6), or can you push him to (9) or (3) so he can learn how to fly? Assuming the orc fails the save of couse...

Thanks in advance!


PS: Title should have been "Push effects do not HAVE to be in STRAIGHT, line right?". Sorry, I have to slow down...

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, you already answered your own question, really.

You said that the monster, if forced into hazardous terrain, gets a saving throw.

Only time that can happen is forced movement... hey that's this situation!


Pushing or sliding monsters off cliffs is a perfectly legal maneuver so long as each square of the push is a legal push.

 

[Alex319]

There is nothing that says that pushes have to be in a straight line. In fact you can even do this:

. . * . * . * . *
A M . * . * . * .
. . . . . . . . .

A = attacker
M = monster
* = push path

assuming you had a push power that moved him that distance. One clever trick with this is to repeatedly push someone into and out of a "damage any enemy that enters it" zone to trigger the damage multiple times.

 

[DNH]

I agree that push (or pull or slide) does not need to be in a straight line, so the OP's example of pushing the orc off the bridge is perfectly valid, but tend to read the power (especially the fluff) to see if the likes of Alex319's example is possible. We have a Rule Zero in our group - Common Sense Prevails - and I am certain (and I am the DM too) that very few powers would allow for that kind of pushing when read in the light of the fluff.

 

[beverson]

I agree that push (or pull or slide) does not need to be in a straight line, so the OP's example of pushing the orc off the bridge is perfectly valid, but tend to read the power (especially the fluff) to see if the likes of Alex319's example is possible. We have a Rule Zero in our group - Common Sense Prevails - and I am certain (and I am the DM too) that very few powers would allow for that kind of pushing when read in the light of the fluff.

I have to agree here. Depending on the power being used, I may or may not allow a zig-zag push like that. If it's a Martial power, which is typically explained as something like "your actions force the target to back away from you" or something like that, probably not. All depends on the power description.

 

[Ryujin]

I agree that push (or pull or slide) does not need to be in a straight line, so the OP's example of pushing the orc off the bridge is perfectly valid, but tend to read the power (especially the fluff) to see if the likes of Alex319's example is possible. We have a Rule Zero in our group - Common Sense Prevails - and I am certain (and I am the DM too) that very few powers would allow for that kind of pushing when read in the light of the fluff.

Our group uses similar common sense. While a push must be away from you it need not be directly away from you, but it must essentially continue along the same path. You could do the zig-zag attack with a slide, but not a push.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

I have to agree here. Depending on the power being used, I may or may not allow a zig-zag push like that. If it's a Martial power, which is typically explained as something like "your actions force the target to back away from you" or something like that, probably not. All depends on the power description.

You can flavour this as "you send your opponent reeling" - your blow made him dizzy and stumbling from side to side.

 

[keterys]

I have to agree here. Depending on the power being used, I may or may not allow a zig-zag push like that. If it's a Martial power, which is typically explained as something like "your actions force the target to back away from you" or something like that, probably not. All depends on the power description.

Be careful not to nerf an entire power source, for starters (ie Martial vs Others) and recall that the power description is actually a mutable description that may be changed by the PC to anything desired, per the actual rules in the PHB.

So, if the fighter has a power that that is 'Your massive smash sends the target flying backwards' so you'd make it in a straight line, but the rogue's is 'Your crippling attack sends a target staggering wildly away.' so you'd allow the zig zag, the fighter could just say 'Mine is actually a smash that sends a target spinning and reeling away'.

At which point, what have you gained?

Better to be consistent. Allow them or don't.

 

[Destil]

One clever trick with this is to repeatedly push someone into and out of a "damage any enemy that enters it" zone to trigger the damage multiple times.

Honestly, this is the sort of ultra-cheesy thing that I think a DM is more than within their right to not allow (I only allow effects for 'entering or start in a zone' powers once per turn per zone, myself).

However, as said the only rule for pushing is that each square must end farther from you than the last. As long as each square of movement does that it's a legal push, unless something else prevents it.

 

[DracoSuave]

Honestly, this is the sort of ultra-cheesy thing that I think a DM is more than within their right to not allow (I only allow effects for 'entering or start in a zone' powers once per turn per zone, myself).

This is also -exactly- the sort of 'ultra-cheesy' thing the rules not only do allow, but the designers have said that Actually, yes, you should be able to do this, we intended for you to be able to do this with forced movement, and there's a reason why forced movement is worded the way it is.

Tho, like anything, if -abused- doesn't always work perfectly.