Quicken 1 Full Round Casting Time

[Jeremy]

So in 3.0 it was impossible to quicken summon spells and astral constructs because the feat said you can't quicken something longer than a full round action. A casting time of 1 full round being longer than a casting time of a full round action cut that out in a confusing similarity of terms but difference of meanings.

But in 3.5 in quicken spell and quicken power the terminology is now cannot quicken if the casting time is longer than 1 full round. A summon monster spell's casting time is not longer than one full round, it is equal to 1 full round. So now you can quicken them?

But then what's the point of the rapid spell feat's special description of "a spell can be made rapid and quickened only if its original casting time was 1 full round" in Complete Divine? If the original casting time was 1 full round, it can already be quickened. Right?

Can astral construct powers and summon monster spells be quickened in 3.5?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So in 3.0 the feat said you can't quicken something longer than a full round action.

But in 3.5 in quicken spell the terminology is now cannot quicken if the casting time is longer than 1 full round.

You have that exactly backwards.

-Hyp.

 

[AuraSeer]

1) No, you cannot Quicken a full-round spell, like summon monster. The limit in 3.5 is a spell that can be cast as a full-round action-- which is still faster than one full round.

2) The line you quote is there to eliminate any rules loophole which might let you Quicken a spell with a long casting time. If it were not there, some clever player might combine Rapid and Quicken and end up with planar ally (or whatever) as a free action, which the designers don't want to allow.
Yet, if the spell was Quickenable in the first place, making it Rapid does not prevent it from being Quickened later. For instance, if a wizard has prepared a spell as Rapid when it could also be Quickened, he can still use the Sudden Quicken feat to cast it as a swift action.

 

[Hypersmurf]

2) The line you quote is there to eliminate any rules loophole which might let you Quicken a spell with a long casting time. If it were not there, some clever player might combine Rapid and Quicken and end up with planar ally (or whatever) as a free action, which the designers don't want to allow.

Well, a Rapid Planar Ally wouldn't qualify for Quicken Spell even without the line.

But a Rapid Summon Monster would - Rapid and Quicken in combination allow you to cast a (very expensive, in slot terms!) free action Summon Monster.

-Hyp.

 

[Jeremy]

You have that exactly backwards.

-Hyp.

But.. But...

QUICKEN POWER [METAPSIONIC]

You can manifest a power with a moment’s thought.

Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can quicken a power. You can perform another action, even manifest another power, in the same round that you manifest a quickened power. You can manifest only one quickened power per round. A power whose manifesting time is longer than 1 round cannot be quickened.

So psions can quicken astral constructs but wizards cannot quicken summoned monsters?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So psions can quicken astral constructs but wizards cannot quicken summoned monsters?

My guess is that the PsiHB Quicken Power was based on the 3E PHB Quicken Spell, and that the XPH Quicken Power was based on the PsiHB Quicken Power, instead of on the 3.5 PHB Quicken Spell.

So yes, as written, psions can quicken astral constructs but wizards cannot quicken summoned monsters.

But since Quicken Power has no interaction with Rapid Spell, that doesn't matter. Rapid Spell synergises with 3.5 Quicken Spell if (and only if) the base spell has a casting time of 1 round.

-Hyp.

 

[KerlanRayne]

Just to play devil's advocate.

CASTING TIME

Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

What about this?

KerlanRayne

 

[Thanee]

So psions can quicken astral constructs but wizards cannot quicken summoned monsters?

The XPH can hardly be used as a guideline. I don't know what they based some of that on, but certainly not the 3.5 core rules.

Could also be a simple editing error.

Bye
Thanee

 

[kmdietri]

I think I'm with KerlanRayne on this.

For one thing I can't ever recall a spell that is cast as just a Full-Round Action, and not 1 Full Round.

 

[KarinsDad]

The XPH can hardly be used as a guideline. I don't know what they based some of that on, but certainly not the 3.5 core rules.

Could also be a simple editing error.

Or, maybe Bruce Cordel realized that a 7th level Psion creating for a whopping 7 PP a 1st level 15 HP Quickened Astral Construct that has a slim chance of injuring opponents at that level and can be wiped out in a single round is not unbalanced.

The reason that 10th level Sorcerers cannot cast a Quickened Summon Monster I is beyond me. Maybe WotC was afraid of those pesky 18th level Sorcerers casting a Quickened Summon Monster V. Ooohhhh. Look out. :\