Quicker Than The Eye feat (from Song & Silence)

[Hypersmurf]

So if your ranged attack/spell casting goes unoticed there would logicly be no reason for an AOO.

In 3.5; not necessarily in 3E.

-Hyp.

 

[jontherev]

The coolest thing about this feat is the stuff you can do if you succeed, OTHER than (sneak) attack. After all, there are much more effective ways to sneak attack than using this feat. Instead, use it to pick up your foe's dropped weapon without him noticing or getting an AoO on you. Hide behind some nearby cover. Retrieve a potion or sheathe a weapon with no AoO. Activate some magic item without him noticing. Fart in his general direction. But to gain one measly sneak attack? No thanks...I'd rather make a full attack while flanking and/or invisible and/or blinking. Any 3.5 conversion that doesn't take this into account is missing the meat from this feat. This is not improved feint, it's much cooler.

 

[Davelozzi]

Alright, TooCan, I'll allow the feat with the following restrictions:

1) If used to feint, your opponent gets to add his BAB to his Spot check.
2) If used to feint against the same opponent multiple times in the same combat, the chances of them falling for it will decrease significantly each time.

...and of course, as always, if it turns out to be noticeably unbalancing I reserve the right to re-evaluate it and work out something else with you.

 

[jontherev]

Alright, TooCan, I'll allow the feat with the following restrictions:

1) If used to feint, your opponent gets to add his BAB to his Spot check.
2) If used to feint against the same opponent multiple times in the same combat, the chances of them falling for it will decrease significantly each time.

...and of course, as always, if it turns out to be noticeably unbalancing I reserve the right to re-evaluate it and work out something else with you.

It's just my opinion of course, but I think adding the bab to the spot check weakens that part of the feat too much. Much of the time, an opponent's spot+bab is going to be better than your bluff skill. In 3E, it was too easy...bluff vs. sense motive...almost an auto-success. But spot's a very common skill. Maybe spot + half(bab) would work? Allowing him to sneak attack once per round is not a big deal, especially when he's giving up all of his other possible attacks that round at higher levels. At least, that's been my experience from playing a rogue for 15 levels with (later on in life) a ring of blinking who sneak attacks 4 or 5 times/round (expert tactician plus twf). I did less damage than the archer most of the time, and risked much more in order to do so (melee vs. ranged), and less on average than the melee fighter/wizard too. Oftentimes, I was practically useless in combat. I don't see the balance issue here, which is why I don't see the need to nerf the feat. However, like I said, it's just my experience and opinion. YMMV.

 

[Davelozzi]

It's just my opinion of course, but I think adding the bab to the spot check weakens that part of the feat too much...

You might be right, but one thing I've learned from experience is that it's easier to ease up later than it is to withdraw benefits, even with the disclaimer I put above. Unlike your experience, so far, the character in question has been able to hold his own in battle quite well so I'm more worried about tipping things the other way.

At any rate, you're right about Spot being generally more common than Sense Motive. I figure that this is somewhat of a balance against the additional benefits of this feat over Improved Feint (no Combat Expertise prequisite, plus the ability to use it in non-battle situations).

We'll see how it goes. But I do I appreciate the feedback (although I bet TooCan will appreciate it even more).

 

[TooCan]

Thanks everyone, now I know where to come when my DM is being mean and un-fair...

 

[TooCan]

Thanks everyone, now I know where to come when my DM is being mean and un-fair...

 

[TracerBullet42]

Thanks everyone, now I know where to come when my DM is being mean and un-fair...

That's right...you can always come here and count on me...TracerBullet42, friend of the little people.

(You are playing a halfling, right? hehehe...)

 

[Look_a_Unicorn]

I play an Elven Bard5/Rogue6 (wait, Bard4/Rogue5- damn level drain) with QttE, but not Improved Feint. Why? Dex 20 Int 10.

The community has ably pointed out several advantages/disadvantages & alternate uses for the feats which I read with interest, but my $0.02 remains the same- QttE is a great feat to represent just how fast a "sneaky" character can move. It has never yet been overpowering (useful, yes). The flat Spot check matches up nicely in my mind's eye as the way an opponent sees a subtle shift of stance as a hidden dagger drops into her hand...
Obviously an argument can be made that Sense Motive can be used similarly, but I've always thought of Sense Motive as more of a subtle conversation thing- you notice their eyes flick to one side when they lie vs Spot's sizing up an enemy's stance...

Basically, both feats are good & have thier place. It's unlikely a PC will take both, but that's just the difference in the way they choose to play their character's sneakiness