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Races of Destiny: Buying/Bought?

Did you buy Races of Destiny?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 24.6%
  • No

    Votes: 133 59.4%
  • Not sure yet

    Votes: 36 16.1%

Mercule

Adventurer
Eric Anondson said:
There is so much potential to mine in previous material (OD&D/Basic/AD&Ds/3e) about degenerate humans, near-humans, and half-humans that they didn't need to invent a whole new one and give the majority (yes, it really is the majority of the book) to the new race.
So, if I think the Illumians sound pretty lame, it's probably not even worth my time to look at the book?

Seriously. I'm not interested in any form of Planetouched, half-breeds see no real play in my game, I don't like aquatic or elemental varients, and the Illumians sound pretty sad. Is there anything in this book worth my time? If I could find it for $5 somewhere, is there anything that might be appealing?
 

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Nightfall

Sage of the Scarred Lands
Merc,

You couldn't even give me five dollars to pimp this book to someone. And considering the fact I pimp out a good bit, that's saying something. :p (Only found the Illuman SLIGHTLY useful. Otherwise it was 25 dollars I won't see again.)
 

Silveras

First Post
Allow me to elaborate on Races of Destiny. My biggest issue is with the space spent discussing humans themselves. Humans are supposed to be the easiest race for people to get their heads around, since, with very few exceptions, most players are humans themselves. :) Thus, 28 pages spent telling you how to play yourself seems ... wasteful.

Here is how the book uses space:

Chapter 1: Humans. Pages 5-32. 10 basic topics: A Day in the Life, Psychology, Lifestyle, Society and Culture, Relations with other races, Religion, History and Folklore, Language, Cities and Settlements, and Character Advice.

2 new deities, each of which gets about a page of space. Other forms of worship are mentioned (Pantheism, Monotheism, and Deism) but only get a paragraph each (1/4 page total). Assorted creation myths are given over the space of 2.5 pages. A new language, Gutterspeak (a corrupted form of common), is introduced, and a short phrasebook is given (a little over half a page for both). 3.25 pages are spent describing a human city, but it is mostly some specific places and the NPCs that inhabit them (2 pages).

Much of the rest is a discussion of Human societies, but generalized, offering such dazzling insights as: Humans work hard. Humans play hard. Humans value social standing. If there is an city under siege, there is also a second army besieging it. This can lead to a stalemate if both forces are evenly matched. Human architecture builds from the ground up. Human buildings don't blend in with nature. Druids don't like human architecture.

Chapter 2: Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. Pages 33-50. The same list of 10 basic topics is covered separately for each, giving Half-Elves 9 pages and Half-Orcs 9 pages.

Chapter 3: Illumians. Pages 51-90. Same 10 basic topics.

Illumians are magically altered humans, created only a few hundred years ago from an order of Monks.

Chapter 4: Other Races of Destiny (Aasimar, Doppelganger, Half-Ogre, Mongrelfolk, Sea-kin, Sharakim, Skulk, Tiefling, and Underfolk). Pages 91-110.

Monster classes are given for the Doppelganger and Skulk. For the rest, abbreviated character traits sections like the race descriptions in the PH for Humans, Elves, etc., basically 1 page each. For some, 60% of this information is already in the Monster Manual.

Sharakim, Sea-kin, and Underfolk are races as new as the Illumians, but they get much less space.

Chapter 5: Prestige Classes. Pages 111-146. 7 Prestige Classes.
Chameleon: Human or Doppelganger.
Loredelver: Illumian only
Menacing Brute: Half-Orc only
Outcast Champion: Half-Elf, Half-Orc, or Half-Ogre
Scar Enforcer: Half-Elf only
Shadow Sentinel: Illumian Only
Urban Soul: Human

The format for Prestige Classes gives each about 5 - 5.5 pages of informtation. Of course, part of that 1-1.5 pages, is the sample NPC (which repeats in full all of the information for each of its class abilities).

A Note about the Scar Enforcer: Its reason to exist is because, in a certain city where Elves and Humans lived in peace, a war broke out between them. Although there is now peace again, both sides pick on the Half-Elves. So these Half-Elves hate both sides of their ancestries. Unless you have a similar city, or care to add one, this particular PrC will require a good deal of re-work to fit into a game.

Chapter 6: Character Options. Pages 147-170. Skills, Feats, Spells, Psionics, and Racial Substitution Levels.

Some new skill uses: using certain skills to be able to map out the power structure of a religion, or a street gang, or a noble house, etc.

Several of the new Feats relate to Illumians only. Of 25 general feats, 9 are Illumian-specific, 4 are specific to Humans, 6 have no racial requirement at all, and the rest are available to Half-Humans.

Illumians get no Racial Substitution Levels. Half-Elves get Bard, Fighter, and Ranger levels; Half-Orcs get Barbarian, Druid, and Paladin levels.

Some spells are interesting. Notes are given for using the new City and Destiny domains in the Forgotten Realms and Eberron.

Chapter 7: Is missing. The next chapter is numbered 8.

Chapter 8: Campaigns of Destiny. Pages 171-192.
This chapter is mostly about Cities and Towns. It discusses "Elements of a Town", Community Attributes (poverty-stricken, declining, booming, etc.), City Folk (typical jobs, social status, roleplaying notes).

The next section is Sample NPCs (13 pages) with encounters (groups assembled from the Sample NPCs). The Sample NPCs are given full stat blocks (which means they again repeat in full all class abilities). There are about a dozen humans, with 5-6 each of Half-Elf, Half-Orc, and Illumian NPCs as well.
 

Crothian

First Post
Silveras said:
Allow me to elaborate on Races of Destiny. My biggest issue is with the space spent discussing humans themselves. Humans are supposed to be the easiest race for people to get their heads around, since, with very few exceptions, most players are humans themselves. :) Thus, 28 pages spent telling you how to play yourself seems ... wasteful.

Here is how the book uses space:

Chapter 1: Humans. Pages 5-32. 10 basic topics: A Day in the Life, Psychology, Lifestyle, Society and Culture, Relations with other races, Religion, History and Folklore, Language, Cities and Settlements, and Character Advice.

Well, does it give this all a fantasy twist. Sure, I know a lot about the modern human but there is potential to take the human race and make it a bit differernt becasue of the fantasy, and lower technology aspects. Even without the magic, humans were quitre a bit different 600 years ago.
 

Starglim

Explorer
Silveras said:
Allow me to elaborate on Races of Destiny.

Thanks, that's a useful summary. I could probably find a use for about 15 pages of this, generally the skills and the fluff for half-elves, half-orcs, half-ogres, aasimar, skulks and mongrelfolk. Are genasi mentioned at all?

Silveras said:
My biggest issue is with the space spent discussing humans themselves. Humans are supposed to be the easiest race for people to get their heads around, since, with very few exceptions, most players are humans themselves. :) Thus, 28 pages spent telling you how to play yourself seems ... wasteful.

I'd be rapt to have 50 pages on humans (though not the pages that you described) and 18 pages on a new minor race such as illumians. Desmond Morris and others have found no difficulty in writing whole books of interesting and surprising detail on the subject.

edit:
2 new deities, each of which gets about a page of space.

Rather than Zerus and Urbanus, I'd like to see a supplement that described real versions of the creation and destiny of humans. Treatments of, say, Ishtar and Prometheus, based on a bit more than the designer reading dictionary entries, along with a roundup of the myths of creation of humans around the world, would be a fine start. It's not as if this stuff is anyone's Product Identity.
 
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Lyriel Aelorothi

First Post
I have purchased said Tome of Knowledge...although, admittedly, it was more to keep my collection current than any driving desire for information contained within...
 

Lord Rasputin

Explorer
Silveras said:
Chapter 5: Prestige Classes. Pages 111-146. 7 Prestige Classes.
Chameleon: Human or Doppelganger.
Loredelver: Illumian only
Menacing Brute: Half-Orc only
Outcast Champion: Half-Elf, Half-Orc, or Half-Ogre
Scar Enforcer: Half-Elf only
Shadow Sentinel: Illumian Only
Urban Soul: Human

The format for Prestige Classes gives each about 5 - 5.5 pages of informtation. Of course, part of that 1-1.5 pages, is the sample NPC (which repeats in full all of the information for each of its class abilities).

Even more than the attempt to be the Complete Illumian, this last bit is what drove me nuts. I understand the need to balance between crunchy bits and and roleplaying info (one reason I liked the deities chapter in Complete Divine was its ability to weave roleplaying info into a crunchy bit format), but a whole section on Combat for the class? NPC reactions? Results of Knowledge (local) for each prestige class? These are a little much.

Silveras said:
Illumians get no Racial Substitution Levels. Half-Elves get Bard, Fighter, and Ranger levels; Half-Orcs get Barbarian, Druid, and Paladin levels.

Nor, might I note, do humans gain racial substitution levels.
 

Krieg

First Post
Elephant said:
Errhm...how can one not be sure whether or not they have purchased something?

I'm betting that the original poster merely made a mistake in the poll.

Just replace "Did you..." with "Will you..." and everything should work out fine. :)


Silveras said:
If there is an city under siege, there is also a second army besieging it. This can lead to a stalemate if both forces are evenly matched. Human architecture builds from the ground up. Human buildings don't blend in with nature. Druids don't like human architecture.

Ouch.

This is one that is going to require a look over at the store first. Online buying sight unseen is definitely out.
 
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Raesene Andu

First Post
Silveras said:
Chapter 7: Is missing. The next chapter is numbered 8.

Chapter 7 is actually the section on magic, all nine pages of it. It features a couple of new clerical domains and a few new spells and Psionic powers.

As for my thoughts on the book, like Races of Stone it isn't worth buying, unless you can get it really cheaply, even then I wouldn't bother. I could use a few things from it in my homebrew world. The half-orge can be adapted, and a couple of the spells have potential. The rest is useless.

With these Races books the idea seems to be to put in a whole chapter on some new race that no one has ever heard of before and never will again and to fill up the book, rather than release just a single book dealing with all the races which might actually be useful.
 

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