races of destiny --has D&D 3.5 jumped the shark?

[Kapture]

The coversation on this seems to run two ways:

It's not A) Tolkein pastiche or B) My idea

So it's not very good

Or It's not A) Tolkein pastiche or B) My idea

and it is very good.

I tend to fall into camp two. I don't think the idea of Illumians is any less... um, silly, or noble, or fresh, or kewl than elves. I actually think they have a certain cartoony flair. I would be happy to have an Illumian in a game I run, although I would make them a mystical order and not a race, I think. I also think the design was cool, too. They have a funny little set of power that makes them very flexible.

Look. The whole game is a horrible set of cliches ripped off from generations of writers ripping off Tolkein, who himself did only a marginal job of rearranging Norse and Celtic myth. In MY oh so humble opinion.

You have to work to make it fresh, both on a genre and a personal level. I like it when WOTC drops in little bits like Illumians. It's more for me to work with. And I do think that, eventully, Tolkein pastiche will be totally tapped out. I think fresh ideas bring in fresh players.

 

[Thanee]

Well, in this case, the easiest solution is just not to buy these books.

Of course.

It's just my opinion after all, if there is a market for those books, then they will do them that way, obviously.

I'd just prefer it in a different way, since I believe, that they are seriously overdoing it with the crunchy stuff lately (especially in books like races/environment, there are other books, like the Complete series, which obviously have to have a very high "crunch factor").

Bye
Thanee

 

[3catcircus]

I like the idea of expanding existing resources but would it sell? People cry up a storm if a product references third party material like the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

The Player's Guide to Faerun got all sorts of flak for including notes on Vile Darkness, Psionics, Exalted, etc...

To me, that works. To most others, it doesn't. People don't want pages of how to roleplay a dwarfven defender. They don't want ancient traditions of the dwarfs and their clans.

They want PrCs, feats, spells, magic items, racial paragons, racial substition levels and other crunch to customize their characters.

Or at least that's what's selling now.

Who are these "People..." of which you speak?

I *do* want information on the various races' traditions.

Instead of Races of Stone, I'd prefer something like "Dwarves of Faerun" that would describe in excruciating detail all of the historical timelines of the Dwarven clans of Faerun, their kings and lineages, and all of the current and extinct clans - including notable things about each (i.e. information like "The Forgehammer clan has always been known for their ability to work sapphires. In 987 DR, Grunk Forgehammer created the clan's best-known work - The Blazing Sapphire, a gemstone that was imbued with the ability to...")

I don't give a rat's patootie about the latest cheez PrC (e.g. taking an existing PrC and buffing it into an even more imbalanced waster of paper and ink.) I don't care about the "looks-cool-but-would-never-actually-work triple-dwarven axe" types of weapons and armor they add.

Frankly, we don't need a "Races of..." book because the information contained in the PHB is more than adequate for a DM to come up with information for his homebrew world. If desired, you could always go get a copy of "The Complete Book of [insert races here]." We *do* need a campaign-specific book because none of the prior D&D products has covered campaign-world specific detailed information on the various races.

While Races of Faerun had some great information on the creation myths and history of the races, I would like some concrete information on specific details - clan names and leaders for dwarves, elven noble families and leaders, halfling settlements and leaders, orc tribes and warlords, etc.

 

[Andre]

Both the races and the environment series should have been done with a lot (A LOT) less crunch (because most of that looks like they just needed to fill the space, some unoriginal, some utterly silly, or worse - ok, some of it is good, too, but that's a very small part ), that would have been much, much better, I think.

Basically they will need to convince me that 2/3 of a book is worth buying the whole thing. That will be hard to do.

Which is exactly how I see all the WOTC supplements. Too much unbalanced/untested crunch. Way too many prestige classes (what was the last supplement WOTC published without a single prestige class?). Too much filler that never gets used. This is why I rarely buy their supplements, and never buy them at full price.

 

[Remathilis]

Way too many prestige classes (what was the last supplement WOTC published without a single prestige class?)

Hmmm.. Arms and Equipment Guide?

 

[Black Spiral Dancer]

Personally, I like the idea of Illumians. As a DM, I like options from which I can craft a new game world. I might not allow Illumians in a standard D&D game, but I am sure I could come up with something where they would fit. So far, I've enjoyed the "Complete" series and the "Races of" series.

 

[The_Universe]

Don't forget the gelatinous cube

How can you say that? I once watched as a single, non-advanced Gelatinous Cube nearly defeated a 10-11th level party! The G-Cube Rocks the Hizzouse!

 

[Knight Otu]

Who's children include Streetis (God of Road Ways), Buildis (Goddess of Sky Scrappers),and Dungis (Demigod of Dung carts)

I think it is save to assume that those are made up, correct?

To those who dislike the name Urbanus, I'll ask a simple question - What is so bad about the name? What is so lame?

Is it just because Urban means city?

Or is it because the name follows a relatively common pattern?
Silvanus, Okeanus, Vulcan, Victoria, Somnus, etc... of real mythology.
Celestian from Greyhawk, travelling the stars and planes.
Silvanus (again), and to a(n extremely) lesser degree Mask, Helm and Bane, from the Realms.

It's not a creative name, but it is in line with several other deity names, so that is not a problem in my mind

 

[JoeGKushner]

Who are these "People..." of which you speak?

I *do* want information on the various races' traditions.

And until the rest of the purchasing public stops buying all the crunch, you are in the minority.

It's a common complaint. "I want more fluff." There are lots of fluff products out there and they often don't sell as well as the crunch ones.

Usually because it's not "their fluff". For example, if Green Ronin detailed the dwarfs from the fallen fortress in Hammer & Helm, some might not want it because, "My dwarves have never fallen!" or "My dwarves are living in the ruins."

Fluff is much more difficult to integrate into a campaign than a PrC or even a new race.

 

[Gez]

I prefer names ending in -os to names ending in -us, for obvious reasons quite often.

Uranus: countless lame jokes.
Ouranos: much better.
Urbanos sounds better than Urbanus, Oceanos sounds better than Oceanus, Silvanos sounds better than Silvanus, etc.

BTW: Bane, Mask, and Helm have lame names. Always thought so. In fact, I think that was one of the reasons the Time of Trouble killed Bane.