D&D 5E Racial bonuses as a floating modifier to ability scores

[Ash Mantle]

Hi all, long time no see

What do people think about the idea of having the races' racial bonuses work instead as a floating modifier to ability scores? But the caveat is that you can't stack them into the same ability score.

So for high elves, their +2 Dex and +1 Int can instead be applied into, say, +2 Cha and +1 Wis for a charismatic diplomat who is always seemingly one step ahead in the great game of intrigue. Or for a high elf honed to physical perfection and peak fighting edge, that +2 Dex and +1 Int could instead be a +2 Str and +1 Con.

This way, you could get micro-cultures within the same racial make up.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure, we've done this for a long time. Each race gets a +2 and a +1 to put in two different scores, humans get +1 to put in three different scores.

Otherwise, for instance, your Tiefling fighter is stuck with a STR 15 max to start (which is good), but there is no logical reason why if you choose to say your Tiefling worked to become strong while growing up, etc., you couldn't apply the +2 to STR instead.

It also discourages Race/Class combos: "Well, I want to play a Sorcerer, I guess with the +2 CHA bonus I should make him a Tiefling. yawn"

It works well and doesn't break anything, adds choice (always a good thing) and flavor to the characters. Go for it!

 

[Krachek]

In term of game balance it would only make slightly sharper character, but nothing OP.
Those rule are old sacred cow from previous edition.
It’s a matter of style and feeling.
Change it if you want.

 

[DEFCON 1]

At that point, I'd question the need for stat bonuses at all. If you're going with the idea that a particular person in a particular race is more geared to a charismatic diplomat or a physical specimen, then their actual stat array shows that off just fine. The way you assign your stats shows us exactly what type of person they were-- no adding of bonuses is necessary.

The whole point of racial bonuses was to differentiate races from humans. If humans are the default race, then the entirety of elven culture will be more dexterous on average because they have the additional point in DEX bonus over humans. Same way that dwarves as a race are one ability point more hearty than humans because of the extra bonus point in CON.

The problem of course (and why I think racial bonuses have really become unnecessary) is that adventurers are not average. And when you have a party of five adventurers at a table, there is absolutely no way to know or visualize the elf being slightly more dexterous than the human, or the dwarf slightly more hearty than the human because their actual ability scores show us what each of them are individually. It doesn't matter in the slightest that an Elf Cleric with a 11 DEX (rolled a 9 and added +2) is part of a race that got that extra boost to go from a 10 to 11 when put up next to the Human Rogue with a 15 DEX (rolled a 14 +1). Will anyone at the table ever care or be able to conceptualize that the Elf Cleric is slightly more dexterous than they otherwise might have been had they been Human? No, of course not. All the players at the table will know is that this particular Elf Cleric AIN'T AGILE and the Human is agile as all get out. So the elf bonus to DEX is completely masked and essentially non-existent. So why bother giving them the bonus in the first place?

The only time players can visualize a race being more than their human counterpart is when they get the additional +1 modifier bonus when they add their big bonus to the maxed-out ability score. The Elf with a 16 (+3) DEX has an obvious difference in the party than the Human with the 15 (+2) DEX. At that point, everybody can tell that the Elf's racial bonus has been an actual bonus because they got something the default humans couldn't get. The demihumans could get a +3 bonus while the best the humans could get was a +2 in their primary racial score.

So at the end of the day if you are going to just let people gain an extra +2 and a +1 to ANY two ability scores regardless of their race... then sure, you can do that I guess. Or you can just give people more points in Point Buy to get to those same numbers, or give them more dice to roll if you are rolling for scores or whatever. The bonuses themselves are meaningless... only the final score matters-- however they reached that final score.

 

[5ekyu]

I also wonder why have racial mods if it's just "pick anything?" in whatever flavor. Seems similar to just adjust your basic stat creation to allow the values you wsnt.

If you see restricting anyone to 15 strength at start as "making no sense" but restricting to everyonexst start to 17 strength at start as "fine and proper" then make the point buy max 17, raise the points etc and go away with racial mods.

You dont need a two-staged process unless those stages serve a purpose.

Right now the purpose is to establish some basic trait differences between different types of creatures that had different Origins, not just cultures.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The only time players can visualize a race being more than their human counterpart is when they get the additional +1 modifier bonus when they add their big bonus to the maxed-out ability score. The Elf with a 16 (+3) DEX has an obvious difference in the party than the Human with the 15 (+2) DEX. At that point, everybody can tell that the Elf's racial bonus has been an actual bonus because they got something the default humans couldn't get. The demihumans could get a +3 bonus while the best the humans could get was a +2 in their primary racial score.

Some of this is why we've been thinking about removing the racial bonuses, going back to rolled scores instead of point-buy, and changing it so racial modifiers affect the maximums instead of the base scores.

If a human is default max 18 in everything, than an elf is max 20 in DEX, dwarf 20 in CON, etc. However, my innate balance sense wants to impose maximums below 18 for the other race to counter their max 20's...

 

[Blue]

Hi all, long time no see

What do people think about the idea of having the races' racial bonuses work instead as a floating modifier to ability scores? But the caveat is that you can't stack them into the same ability score.

At that point, just move them to ability score generation.

I like how 13th Age does it. Race gives +2 to choice of two*. Class gives +2 to choice of two. It can't be the same.

So race will inform your abilities - your stocky dwarf will get a bonus to STR or CON. But no matter what class you pick, you will be able to build it with any race. But a dwarf wizard will likely be +INT +CON, vs. an elven wizard who is more likely +INT +DEX.

So you end up with any race/any class but races still contributing to feel.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah, I review that in 13th Age. We debated it and thought of maybe +1 from race, +1 from class, and +1 player's choice; no more than two to the same score. Race was set, class was a choice of two options based on save proficiency.

Maybe we'll revisit the idea next weekend.

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe racial distinction should be in skills. Drop the ability score modifiers entirely and just increase the point buy or array values?

 

[ccs]

Some of this is why we've been thinking about removing the racial bonuses, going back to rolled scores instead of point-buy, and changing it so racial modifiers affect the maximums instead of the base scores.

If a human is default max 18 in everything, than an elf is max 20 in DEX, dwarf 20 in CON, etc. However, my innate balance sense wants to impose maximums below 18 for the other race to counter their max 20's...

Look no further than the 1e stat charts.