Racial Min-maxing of Defenses

[lightblade]

So, it looks like most races will be getting +2 to two different ability scores,
and classes will have 2 or 3 important ability scores for that class.
It also looks like the defenses (Fort, Reflex, and Will) will be based on the better of the two relevant ability scores: Str or Con, Dex or Int, and Wis or Cha.
To get the most benefit, defense wise, players should pick one stat from each group to emphasize. For example, a Rogue could put points in Str, Dex, and Cha, while ignoring the other attributes, and be fine when it comes to defenses. What race would be best? A race that gave +2 to two of those scores (probably Dex and one other for the rogue).

What does this say about races? I think races that give +2 to abilities in the same defense silo will be at a disadvantage. For example, if the Eladrin gave +2 Dex +2 Int (a reasonable guess at the moment), then only the better attribute would contribute to defenses. Sure, they'd still get the other benefits to skill and ability checks, but I bet defenses will be among the most important numbers that can be tweaked in this manner (since hitpoints are only minorly tied to CON in 4th edition).

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I see where you're coming from, but it's just an extra +1. That's usually nothing to get too excited about in my experience.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Plus Con has more of an effect on hit points that it seems at first. Read the "Subtle Influence of Con" thread. . .

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I see where you're coming from, but it's just an extra +1. That's usually nothing to get too excited about in my experience.

But min-maxing is not about geting one giant plus from one thing, but lots of +1s that when added together is a giant plus. For a min-maxer every +1 counts and not being able to get two +1s out of stats means that a race is suboptimal.

 

[Cadfan]

1) Some comparisons will still be worthwhile. Lets imagine that Dragonborn have +2 Str, +2 Con (pure speculation). If you're playing a Fighter, that's still worth it even if strength and constitution affect the same defense.

2) Races get more than just a stat boost. If a particular race has +2 Wis and +2 Cha, that race might have a weaker combination of stat bonuses than other races. But, it might also have a really good per encounter power, or a really good special rule or ability, that makes it worth taking that race even if its stat bonuses aren't as strong as someone else's.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I also think it's important to note that the gap between what were high and low saves in 3.x is orders of magnitude smaller, at higher levels. Essentially, for a single-classed character, the difference between the defense they excel at and the ones they don't is only 2, not counting ability scores. That makes taking care of your "low" defenses is much easier, and not quite as important as in 3.x, what with save-or-die gone.

 

[lightblade]

1) Some comparisons will still be worthwhile. Lets imagine that Dragonborn have +2 Str, +2 Con (pure speculation). If you're playing a Fighter, that's still worth it even if strength and constitution affect the same defense.

2) Races get more than just a stat boost. If a particular race has +2 Wis and +2 Cha, that race might have a weaker combination of stat bonuses than other races. But, it might also have a really good per encounter power, or a really good special rule or ability, that makes it worth taking that race even if its stat bonuses aren't as strong as someone else's.

Sure, i'm not saying that such races aren't worth playing for mechanical reasons, and would never suggest that a race with poor stats is not worth playing at all. I just wanted to point out that such a combination of ability points was a mark against in terms of defense scores, and needed to be weighed against the other benefits the race brought to the table. Perhaps there will be a class that favors two stats in the same defense silo. (Then again, perhaps that class is also not as defensively minded as it could be, though i suppose the class defense bonus provided could cover in that case).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Just think of the CharOp fun. "My dwarf has a 52 Fort Defense", "How do I make a wizard with the best Will defense", and similar threads.

 

[fedelas]

the only thing i can guess is that some races results in best combination with a specific class (as ever) other can be viable because solid in all the 3 (4 with AC) defenses, not too bad IMO.