Rain of Steel: Modifiers?

[Tremorsense]

It's a defender ability. Defenders that aren't a threat don't defend anything except themselves.

Pop it next to a monster or monsters engaging your allies and make them move away or die.

It's definitely not a defender ability. Anything that makes the enemy want to avoid being next to the defender isn't filling the defender roll.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's definitely not a defender ability. Anything that makes the enemy want to avoid being next to the defender isn't filling the defender roll.

It fills the defender role very well against melee-only foes, you're just not looking at it from the proper angle. This is a defend allies by forcing enemies to move power, not a defend allies by forcing enemies to stay put power. It's a totally different way to achieve the result.


Fighter moves up to group of melee enemies with Rain of Steel. Rest of party stays out of charge range.

Foes have choices:

1) Stay and fight the Fighter and take damage.
2) Shift and move away (single charge will not work).
3) Move away and then charge attack.

In all 3 cases, they take Rain of Steel damage.

If they stay (#1), the Fighter is fulfilling the keep them off of allies part of his role (and the Fighter is punishing them a little).

If they leave, the first one to shift (#2) gets attacked with Combat Challenge. Again, fulfilling the punishing part of his role. Any that shift use up their entire round's worth of actions getting away. Hence, fulfilling the prevent foes from attacking allies part of his role.

Any that move (#3) will get attacked with Combat Superiority. Again, fulfilling the punishing part of his role.


If the foes try to stay away from the Fighter, the rest of the party tactically moves each round to avoid foes and the Fighter continues to move up to any grouping of foes, and this forces a lot of movement by foes. This creates PC opportunities for Combat Advantage and sometimes even Opportunity Attacks.

Sure, a foe could move up to the Wizard and attack. The Fighter then moves up to that foe and the next round, that foe has to decide whether to stay and fight the Wizard where he gets hit with Rain of Steel, Combat Challenge, and the normal Fighter's attack, or move away.

If he moves away, the Fighter is definitely fulfilling his role of defending the Wizard. If he stays, the Fighter fulfills the punishing part of his role.


The role is not just defending, but also punishing for ignoring the Fighter. Running away from the Fighter often results in ignoring him.

Granted, this does not work as well for Teleporting foes and Ranged foes. But, not all powers are designed for all situations. Rain of Steel is mostly good against a group of melee foes (and even better against minions). It does this very well.

 

[keterys]

It's also worth note that while 'flight' is certainly a possible response it begins with 'fight or...'

A fighter who is an extremely dangerous threat is one that you want to take down as fast as possible, and Rain of Steel can easily be an impetus for a side to focus fire on him.

 

[keterys]

That said, I would rather that Rain of Steel was more of a defender-y ability. Something like:

Effect: Until the stance ends, increase the damage of your combat challenge and opportunity attacks by 1W. Further, any enemy that starts its turn next to you takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls against your allies until the start of its next turn.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

That said, I would rather that Rain of Steel was more of a defender-y ability. Something like:

Effect: Until the stance ends, increase the damage of your combat challenge and opportunity attacks by 1W. Further, any enemy that starts its turn next to you takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls against your allies until the start of its next turn.

That's no more defender-y, just different.

 

[keterys]

It makes his combat challenges and opportunity attacks more threatening and gives the enemy a penalty to attack against anyone other than him. I'm pretty sure that as litmus tests go, it's definitely more defendery.

Unless you want to argue that hunter's quarry is equally as defendery as combat challenge, in which case we have different definitions of this made up word.

My fighter will cheerfully continue to have Rain of Steel, though, because I think it's fun and a nice defense against things like crazy defense solos.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

It makes his combat challenges and opportunity attacks more threatening and gives the enemy a penalty to attack against anyone other than him. I'm pretty sure that as litmus tests go, it's definitely more defendery.

Then you got a defective litmus test or you didn't use it properly. Making the enemies move away from your allies and thus be unable to attack them is as good a job at defending as you're going to do.

Unless you want to argue that hunter's quarry is equally as defendery as combat challenge, in which case we have different definitions of this made up word.

Ooh, a strawman. And a particularly lame one at that.

Your version is more static, not more defendery.

 

[Caliban]

It is not a melee attack so some things do not work with it - Iron Armbands of Power & Tempest Technique for example.

It's an attack power that uses a melee weapon. Most DM's I've gamed with have allowed those bonuses to apply. (I do not currently have a character that uses this power) YMMV

 

[keterys]

It doesn't make them move. They get hit by the effect regardless - it's on the start of their turn, so it's in the hand of the fighter as to whether he wants to move up.

It's not a strawman, or at least not intended as one. Both stances have a reason not to be by the fighter with a significant lack of control over that option by it being start of turn. Once you've taken the damage from the start of your turn, Rain of Steel _ceases to have any effect_ so there's no additional reason not to go ahead and do whatever you want, such as attacking the wizard.

Whereas the effect I listed beefs up all of the retaliation abilities the fighter has for defense, and gives the enemy a penalty to attack his allies.

 

[keterys]

It's an attack power that uses a melee weapon. Most DM's I've gamed with have allowed those bonuses to apply. (I do not currently have a character that uses this power) YMMV

The character builder also works that way. It feels inconsistent to me, but as far as I can say that's the justification.