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Ramblings of an Unsound Mind

Andur

First Post
So I've been following some of this 4e stuff ;) and it seems to me that some classes are "optional". A class can be defined by role, power source, and a lil fluff. Now since we already know how the different classes filled roles under the previous editions, I think it is important to note that I foresee a "new kind" of hybrid. It will be one that combines unusual role/power source combinations. And I think that is a good thing.

Enough with the typing, here are some examples:

Martial: This is a power source which emphasizes the physical, whether it be body or weapons. It has a leaning for close combat over ranged combat.

Martial Defender: Defenders are what Martial is all about, the Martial power source should have more Defender role options than any other power source. They will shine in close combat defense.

Martial Striker: Another "typical" Martial role, whether close or at range.

Martial Leader: Through tactics, inspiration, or just grit, they help out others as well as helping themselves.

Martial Controller: 80 O.K., now I know there are going to be "wait a second here", but all we have to do is look at what a Controller does, it is not magic, it is simply crowd control. Either through death and destruction or through incapacitation. A Martial Controller might be "ye olde spiked chain tripper from hell" or it might be "ye olde tanglefoot and alchemist fire tosser".

Now let's look at Arcane for another interesting choice:

Arcane Defender: Through the use of powerful abjuration spells they are able to mitigate damage to themselves, maybe even as far as redirecting damage from others unto themselves. They also will have compelling powers to encourage getting attacked over otehr targets. I would see them shining as a Arcane Ranged Defender, so they might have an Encounter Power called "Pincushion - You become the target for any ranged attack upon one of your allies within 2 squares", combine that with a little minor sustainable damage mitigation power (Piercing Resist 10 perhaps) and it makes an interesting concept.

Just with the three Power Sources and the four Roles from the pregens, we can come up with some great combinations which are not "true" hybrids, but yet in some way are "new" hybrids. Someting along the lines of class distribution across a Power Source would be:

Martial Defender 3 (Close, Ranged, Mix), Martial Striker 2 (Close, Ranged), Martial Leader 2 (Close, Ranged), and Martial Controller 1 (Close)

Arcane Defender 1 (Ranged), Arcane Striker 2 (Mix, Ranged), Arcane Leader 2 (Ranged, Mix), Arcane Controller 3 (Close, Mix, Ranged)

Divine Defender 2 (Close, Mix), Divine Striker 1 (Close), Divine Leader 3 (Close, Mix, Ranged), Divine Controller 2 (Close, Mix)

Throw in more Power Sources or Roles and the possibilities get up there really fast.

So just like an encounter might consist of lurkers, artillery, and brutes, so too can the PC's.

...and now back to your regular scheduled programming...
 

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Ximenes088

First Post
I'd have to agree with the designers' statements that they don't see any merit in forced symmetry. There's simply no need for every power source to have representatives for every role. Magic can plausibly let a PC do any job, but sheer muscle and prowess can't plausibly do mass crowd control unless you start bringing up magical/technological devices or martial maneuvers that might as well be magic.

The one case in which I could see someone wanting a martial controller would be for campaigns that explicitly exclude magic. Even in that case, I think it's pushing the genre; Conan almost always beats the stuffing out of anybody who faces him one-on-one, but when he's taken down, it's equally almost always a matter of a mob of mooks pulling him under. No-magic campaigns _should_ make swarms scary.

I don't think there's anything particularly immoral or badwrongfun about playing fill-the-grid with character classes, but I think things'll move much more smoothly and with much better intrinsic balance if multiclassing rules are used to get the kind of hybrids you're describing.
 

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