Random Encounter Tables

In a level 4 Pathfinder "Oriental Adventures"-style game I'm a player in, the DM uses a random encounter generator. We have twice run into stegosauruses. We keep meaning to capture and tame one, but we're just too weak to do it without losses.

I have only one real issue with random encounter tables; what if a fight actually breaks out? The encounters are usually interesting from a distance, but fighting 3 stegosauruses isn't all that fun. (We didn't do that, note!) Several identical creatures, with a much higher CR/level in that particular instance...

I think a more complicated computer-generated encounter generator would work better. It doesn't necessarily have to be CR/level-balanced, but something that randomly picks monster roles would be ideal. (I don't want to fight 5 drow fighters 5, or 1 drow fighter 10 and 4 drow warrior 2. I'd be much happier if it were one priestess, one drider sorcerer, and four rogues, all slightly lower or slightly higher level than the PCs. You can still talk, or try to evade, but if that doesn't work you don't get bored or stomped.
 

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Celebrim

Legend
What you describe is a poor random encounter generator combined with a DM that doesn't know how to use a random encounter generator.

First of all, no random encounter generator in my opinion is complete without 'Roll Again Twice'. Roll Again Twice is really interesting because it means you encounter some sort of weird alliance or walk into the middle of some sort of preexisting encounter. For example, you might get 'Orcs' + 'Stegosauruses'. So the devious DM will decide, "Is this an encounter with a group of Orcs mounted on tame Stegosauruses, or is this a group of Orcs that have encountered a Stegosaurus?" In the former case, now you've got this weird nutty unexpected fight, and in the later case the PC's have the option to side with one side or the other and potentially make unexpected allies.

Secondly, even as far back as 1e, an encounter with orcs didn't necessarily mean a group of homogenous orcs. The 1e Monster Manual made clear that if you encountered a warband, there would be a variety of leaders and in some cases supporting spell casters. A properly designed random encounter table entry for orcs would in the details section read like:

Orcs: One orc will be a 2nd level fighter for every 8 orcs encountered. If at least 40 orcs are encountered, there will be a Subchief that is a fighter of level 1d4+2, who will have a body guard of 2d4 2nd level Barbarians. There is a 10% chance that the entire group is mounted on light warhorses. There is a 40% chance that the warband will be accompanied by 2d4 tame wild boars ('war pigs'). In any group, there is a 30% chance of a scout who is a Ranger of level 1d4. Also in any group there is a 20% chance of a priest of level 1d6, and a separate 30% chance of a witch doctor that is an adept of level 2d4. If either priest or witch doctor is of the maximum level, they will have 1d4 acolytes that are 1st level members of the appropriate class. The remainder, if any, will be 1st level warriors.

Finally, a DM shouldn't feel hidebound to his random encounter generator and should also keep in mind that its purpose is to provoke innovation. A DM should always fudge the roll if the result would be boring, or would derail the session, or if he can think of no way to make the result fair. However, a DM should always be looking for creative ways to make the suggestion interesting. If the suggestion is, "Mature Adult Red Dragon", and the party is but 8th level, then perhaps the encounter is with a Dragon that is recently fed and which feels a desire for conversation, and as such is not immediately hostile turning a combat encounter into an uncomfortable RPG opportunity (and a tax deduction, as the Dragon insists on some present in exchange or bribe), or perhaps it is with a high flying Dragon that really has no interest in the party and merely flies over head at a distance provoking panic. Or perhaps the entry shouldnt' have been on the table in the first place.
 
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ExoKnight

Explorer
I use random encounters to provide inspirations. If I roll a random encounter for a 1st level group of adventurers and the result was a vampire. I might think twice about using that encounter.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I use random encounters to provide inspirations. If I roll a random encounter for a 1st level group of adventurers and the result was a vampire. I might think twice about using that encounter.

I'd definitely think twice about it, but that's not the same as saying I wouldn't use the result. There are several ways to make a vampire encounter interesting even at very low level, and I might use one or more of them together.

1) The vampire could be a 1st level character with the Vampire Template. Except for the energy drain attack (which in full disclosure I must say I don't use for Vampires, preferring to have a CON draining blood drain attack and then only for a 'bite' attack, not a slam), nothing about a Vampire is inappropriate for a 1st level character party provided the Vampire is weak enough.
2) The vampire could for reasons of its own, not wish to kill the PC's. Vampires can have very complex motivations. Dracula didn't immediately kill everyone he met in a berserk frenzy. In fact, he very rarely did that and certainly not openly. This would be a great time to introduce a reoccurring villain. After all, it's not necessarily immediately obvious that the vampire is a vampire, and even if it was it's not immediately obvious that the vampire is going to want to kill the PC's as opposed to charming or cozening them. Presenting the random encounter as with a nobleman or a wealthy merchant sounds like an awesome idea.
3) The vampire could be at a severe handicap. Vampires have lots of weaknesses, the most notable of which is sunlight. If it is daylight at the time of the random encounter, the vampire could be essentially helpless. The presentation of this encounter wouldn't be with a vampire, but perhaps with a vampire's charmed minion(s) who is pretending to be transporting a coffin for some feigned reason. The significance of the encounter again might not be immediately apparent to the party. However, opening the coffin produces an encounter during which the PC's are at a significant advantage, and a chance to be heroes.
 


Ravenheart87

Explorer
I have only one real issue with random encounter tables; what if a fight actually breaks out? The encounters are usually interesting from a distance, but fighting 3 stegosauruses isn't all that fun. (We didn't do that, note!) Several identical creatures, with a much higher CR/level in that particular instance...

Well, there is something that nowadays players seem to forget about: you can run for your life. You don't have to fight every encounter, even if the enemy attacks you.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Well, there is something that nowadays players seem to forget about: you can run for your life. You don't have to fight every encounter, even if the enemy attacks you.

While I agree with the general sentiment that not every encounter should be overcome by combat, unless the entire party is mounted or has access to high level magic, 'running away' is rarely a successful strategy. Or to put it more bluntly, literally running on your feet never works on anything that is worth running from, and anything slow enough to be ran from can usually be successfully kited anyway (zombies, oozes, etc.)

Most monsters are simply faster than party members generally and at least some party members specifically (heavily armored characters and short characters, for example). All running away tends to accomplish is separating the party and sacrificing the slower members to whatever you are running away from. In general, by the time that the party knows it needs to run away, it's already far too late to do so. One really nasty thing that happens when the party makes the decision to flee is that party cohesion breaks down entirely. I've had far more PC's die when the decision was made to run, because it turned into a rout and 'every man for himself' than I've had PC's survive because they ran. One of the worst sessions I ever have had in terms of body count, with 4 of 6 PC's dying, happened because the PC's panicked and ran in a situation where if they'd stayed and fought they almost certain would have had no deaths. "Hopefully enough monsters will stay behind to devour the corpses so we can get away.", isn't a very good strategy for anyone in the long run.

In fact, one of the many reasons I dropped the Monk from my games is that practical experience with the 3e Monk in play showed that literally the only thing it was good at relative to other character choices was abandoning the rest of the party. It was a clear situation where the suboptimal nature of the class combined with its class defining high mobility was causing other PC's to die.
 

Ravenheart87

Explorer
You're taking running away too literally. Sure, monsters can be faster than PCs, but PCs can have magic items, abilities, spells, environmental obstacles, and clever tactics that can help them. In case of intelligent creatures leaving behind some treasure, or in case of animals leaving behind some food can be an effective way too to halt your chaser. Escaping is not only about speed, cunning is far more important. Of course there can be situations when nothing helps, but that can happen in combat, exploration, or even during a diplomatic negotiation - :):):):) happens, it's part of D&D.
 

Celebrim

Legend
You're taking running away too literally.

You're talking to me like I'm a player that needs tactical advice. I'm a DM telling you what I've experienced with player tactical choices over the last 30 years, and I'm telling you that your theory is theoretical and not practical. Or at the very least, it is colored by having a very narrow view of what scenarios happen in D&D.

Sure, monsters can be faster than PCs, but PCs can have magic items, abilities, spells...

In general, that either means that on the whole the PC's are faster than the monsters, or else it doesn't.

Most importantly though, what that tends to mean until comparatively high level is a PC, or a couple of PC's have an 'escape' button, but that the whole party does not. Sure, Teleport is great emergency button if you can manage it, but that doesn't do anything for you until you have at least 9th level Wizards in the party, and even then if you have a party of 6 or 8 PC's that means probably only half are getting out alive. And the same is true of spells, abilities, and magic items generally. They may help individual players, but they don't necessarily help the whole party.

environmental obstacles

Tend to hinder players even more than monsters. Most monsters are encountered in their natural habitat, which tends to not be the natural habitat of the players. Sure, there is probably some skill monkey that can tumble, jump, climb, and swim as well or better than the monster, and in practice he can get away, but that doesn't help the party as a whole. Mostly what you have here is 'difficult terrain' that disproportionately impacts the players. For example, in my current campaign, one of the closest times the party 'tank' came to dying is when the party decided to evade a pack of hell hounds by fleeing over the rooftops. Sure, this worked for the party rogue well, but the armored 'tank' was no better dealing with rooftop terrain than the hellhounds were.

and clever tactics that can help them. In case of intelligent creatures leaving behind some treasure, or in case of animals leaving behind some food can be an effective way too to halt your chaser.

In the past 5 years of play, I can't think of one case where either 'clever tactic' (which is really nothing more than a rote example from a stock list of tired theoretical tactics) would have actually worked. In the case of intelligent creatures, your definition of 'intelligent creature' seems to presume very low intelligence creatures that are easily distracted by shiny baubles and have no real motivation beyond simple greed and no real relationship to the party. This is a tactic that might work with a randomly encountered goblin warband of the Clown Villain variety but its not going to work with a 19 intelligence big bad that knows that you have been the grit in the gears of their organization or a brain washed cultist fanatic protecting their unholy temple nor the infernal outsider. And really, which group is more likely to have the resources to make you want to run or need to run? Likewise, throwing a few iron rations down might distract those four or five feral dogs for a few rounds (maybe), but rarely is there a situation where mere animals can make even a low level party want to run away. Four or five feral dogs or wolves cease to be a threat somewhere around 3rd level, and even lions, tigers and bears aren't far behind in obsolesce. In those rare situations where animals can be a threat - a stampeding herd of mastadons or a entire pack of dire lions - its highly questionable whether dumping a box of raisins or even pulling a few hay bales from your bag of holding is going to make much of a difference on the monsters motivations. (And most predators have the scent ability as well, which makes them difficult to evade.) In general with animals, some where after level 1 the party tends to acquire more tools to mentally dominate, control, or deceive animals than you are ever going to have moving faster than them and in so far as you can evade them, by literal flight for example, this tends to turn into kiting the foe rather than escaping it.

For that matter, while I do have monsters try to run away, it's relatively rare that it works for anything but a high level spellcaster. By the time the monster knows it's in real trouble, it's too late to get away. Often this is true even if the monster is generally faster than the players. Even something extraordinarily fast like an air elemental can take enough missile damage in the two rounds or so it takes to get out of range of its pursuers to finish it off.
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
Good posts in this thread, [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION].

I use morale checks at certain points in the evasion/pursuit to see if the monsters will chase the PCs, so that helps even things out.
 

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