Range for increased sized reach weapons

[edwee]

Im currently trying to determine the range for a Large sized Lance and was unable to find any rules determining Large weapons ranges, normal range for a reach weapon is 10 ft, if it were a large weapon would it be 15 feet or what?(assuming a medium sized creature was wielding it with Monkey Palms)

 

[Vegepygmy]

3.5 PHB, page 113.

A medium-sized creature wielding a Large reach weapon gains no additional reach (that is, it gets no more benefit than it would from a Medium-sized reach weapon). A Large creature wielding a Large reach weapon has its natural reach doubled.

 

[frankthedm]

Reach Weapons
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

I'd advise a look at the precedence of the core rules centaur for fine example of how this works. The centaur, a large creature, wields the same weapons as ogres and giants, yet the centaur only has 5’ reach with non reach weapons, 10' with reach weapons. If a large creature with the same reach as a medium creature does not gain additional reach wielding the weapons of an ogre, I think there is little room to make claims a medium creature would.

Attack: Longsword +7 melee (2d6+6/19-20) or composite longbow (+4 Str bonus) +5 ranged (2d6+4/×3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...ation-reach-weapons-large-huge-creatures.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...enlarge-person-reach-weapons.html#post3188585

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/188958-reach.html

 

[Herzog]

So, since reach weapons double the creatures' reach, a (medium) warshaper (reach 5) with Morphic reach (+5) and a reach weapon would have 20' reach?

 

[HoboGod]

A bit of thread necromancy in this post, but justifiably so as this is enworld's first search result on google for the topic of different sized reach weapons.

I'd like to say that I disagree with consensus based on how reach weapons are described in Savage Species.

Size and Reach: For each size increase of a reach weapon, increase its reach by 5 ft. A Huge guisarme has a reach of 15 feet (insead of 10 feet for the Large Version), for instance, while a Gargantuan guisarme has a reach of 20 feet. . . . Tiny creatures using small reach weapons can fight in melee as if they had 5 feet of reach, meaning they do not have to enter an opponent's area to attack.

Furthermore, this does not disagree with the PHB. A creature using an appropriately sized weapon doubles it's reach. However, the PHB does not explicitely talk about the reach of inapropriately sized weapons, whereas Savage Species does.

I'll admit Savage Species is a few months short of being called a 3.5 rulebook, but saying a reach weapon only doubles your reach regardless of the weapon's size is just silly. Poles and chains don't shorten because the wielder has shorter arms.

EDIT: Also, by core, Centaurs don't use any reach weapons. If they did, I'd say they would probably have a 15ft reach.

 

[irdeggman]

A bit of thread necromancy in this post, but justifiably so as this is enworld's first search result on google for the topic of different sized reach weapons.

I'd like to say that I disagree with consensus based on how reach weapons are described in Savage Species.


Furthermore, this does not disagree with the PHB. A creature using an appropriately sized weapon doubles it's reach. However, the PHB does not explicitely talk about the reach of inapropriately sized weapons, whereas Savage Species does.

I'll admit Savage Species is a few months short of being called a 3.5 rulebook, but saying a reach weapon only doubles your reach regardless of the weapon's size is just silly. Poles and chains don't shorten because the wielder has shorter arms.

EDIT: Also, by core, Centaurs don't use any reach weapons. If they did, I'd say they would probably have a 15ft reach.

Rules Compendium pg 116 (last 3.5 book published and by self-definition the last and most up to date source for rules)

"Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can attack at up to double their natural reach, but they can't attack within their natural reach or less."

pg 151

"A wielder gains no reach from a reach weapon that is too small. No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big."

 

[Nezkrul]

I'll admit Savage Species is a few months short of being called a 3.5 rulebook, but saying a reach weapon only doubles your reach regardless of the weapon's size is just silly. Poles and chains don't shorten because the wielder has shorter arms.

savage species had too many broken things in it to be 3.5.

also, are you swinging your colossal longspear or is it swinging you? you have to choke up on it, assuming you could even get your grip on the massive diameter of the spear, because your mass or leverage just ain't enough to use it... hence the printed rules that a reach weapon only doubles your reach if it is appropriately sized for you.

 

[HoboGod]

Rules Compendium pg 116 (last 3.5 book published and by self-definition the last and most up to date source for rules)

"Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can attack at up to double their natural reach, but they can't attack within their natural reach or less."

This is identical to the entry in the PHB in that it's not mentioning inappropriate sized weapons, it's speaking of a truism that exists for what generally happens when creatures use reach weapons.

pg 151

"A wielder gains no reach from a reach weapon that is too small. No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big."

You've taken this quote out of context. They're talking about when modifying a weapon (such as Large one-handed weapon to Medium two-handed weapon) to be wielded by a creature of a different size category. They're not talking about when wielding the weapon normally as if you were that size category such as with monkey grip or strongarm bracers.

savage species had too many broken things in it to be 3.5.

also, are you swinging your colossal longspear or is it swinging you? you have to choke up on it, assuming you could even get your grip on the massive diameter of the spear, because your mass or leverage just ain't enough to use it... hence the printed rules that a reach weapon only doubles your reach if it is appropriately sized for you.

Yes, the fact that Savage Species is not 3.5 is the counter-argument. I can't rebuke that. However, what would monkey grip and strongarm bracers give you if not the grip on on the massive diameter of your weapon?

 

[Nezkrul]

Yes, the fact that Savage Species is not 3.5 is the counter-argument. I can't rebuke that. However, what would monkey grip and strongarm bracers give you if not the grip on on the massive diameter of your weapon?

For 1, neither allow a human to use a colossal sized weapon, let alone without penalty. 2, Monkey Grip is such a crappy feat compared to Power Attack. 3. Strong Arm Bracers nor Monkey Grip are core, so not really valid to use to argue about core rules.

 

[HoboGod]

I never said they could use a colossal sized weapon. Your example uses a colossal weapon. The topic is about Large sized weapons. Personally, I thought your example was a humorous quip and were using it to generalize how Large weapons should be treated. As for this being a discussion of core rules (PHB, DMG, and MM only) to which monkey grip and strong arm bracers should not be mentioned, that's ridiculous. The original topic of this discussion is in regards to the reach of a medium creature with a Large lance using the monkey grip feat (the OP called it monkey palms, but I imagine that's just a typo).

As for Monkey Grip being a crappy feat. I agree. But are you gunna tell that to weeabo fluff gamers that want to have a sub-optimal character with an oversized sword that they should be using Power Attack instead?