D&D 5E Ranged party member keeps running off the map

[CapnZapp]

As for the general topic, D&D is and has always been geared for the classic party, where noone is ever more than 60 ft away from the action.

The problem with 5e is that it has forgotten that in order to keep it that way, short-range builds and especially slow melee types must be heavily incentivized.

The only reason fantasy features slow Dwarves with axes is because they deal brutal damage and have incredible staying power.

And more to the point - that no fast ranged build can come close to that sort of combat lethality.

Once you realize this, it's immediately apparent D&D has forgotten its roots in its attempt to please the crowd that wants it all, to be able to play virtuous fighters that use speed and range as their weapons.

But you can't have both. In a game where speed and range doesn't unrealistically lower your combat awesomeness below what the slow melee builds can achieve...

...nobody will play slow and short, to put it bluntly.

The only reason you play a Gimli despite the serious handicaps of slow speed and no range is when the game turns those things from a liability into a virtue!

D&D used to do this, but 5e forgot to.

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[Ilbranteloth]

I will never get this sentiment. Have you even looked at the monsters in Monster Manual?!

5e monsters are heavily geared towards melee and monsters generally have much more limited access to the ranged tools available to player characters.

Sure you can hand pick the few monster types with decent, good and stellar attack modes that work at long range; but in my opinion most DMs and pre-written campaigns won't.

Other than that, ranged combat is only that good to NPCs and monsters with class levels, and many DMs will go entire campaigns without using even one of those.

So no, just because something is good for the players does not mean it's good for the monsters as well. This is not a symmetrical game.

Most peasants and goblins and umber hulks and whatnot would kill for the awesome abilities available to player characters. But they will never get them in most campaigns.



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They may be optimized for melee but any humanoid can use a bow, and some of them are listed as proficient. And 6-10 goblins with bows against one guy with an arquebus? But it's also easy to add proficiency to a monster too. Yes, they have disadvantage at long range, but in groups they are still pretty deadly.

 

[CapnZapp]

They may be optimized for melee but any humanoid can use a bow, and some of them are listed as proficient. And 6-10 goblins with bows against one guy with an arquebus? But it's also easy to add proficiency to a monster too. Yes, they have disadvantage at long range, but in groups they are still pretty deadly.

Sure, but now you're looking to fix the rulebook's generosity by tweaking monsters. I much prefer to fix the core issue once and for all, and then I can use the monster stat blocks as-is just fine.

Besides, it's is a losing strategy to enter an arms race. "The PCs are too strong at a distance. So add range to the monsters." And then the PCs do this (use cover, for instance), and you need to counter that.

In the end, you have lost the core idea of a fantasy game that is based around manly and bravely walking up to the foe to axe it to death.

Much better to fix the core issue, and that is how 5e forgot to make melee suitably better than ranged.

 

[Sacrosanct]

They may be optimized for melee but any humanoid can use a bow, and some of them are listed as proficient. And 6-10 goblins with bows against one guy with an arquebus? But it's also easy to add proficiency to a monster too. Yes, they have disadvantage at long range, but in groups they are still pretty deadly.

Indeed. Speaking of sentiments that people will never get, I will never get why some people think that unless that particular weapon type is explicitly listed in the stat block, then that monster can't use it. There is absolutely nothing preventing any humanoid (orc, kolbold, bugbear, ogre, etc) from using any weapon or wearing any armor or using any shield.

 

[Cyrinishad]

Indeed. Speaking of sentiments that people will never get, I will never get why some people think that unless that particular weapon type is explicitly listed in the stat block, then that monster can't use it. There is absolutely nothing preventing any humanoid (orc, kolbold, bugbear, ogre, etc) from using any weapon or wearing any armor or using any shield.

I'm just imagining what the Monster Manual would look like if it attempted to satisfy all scenarios... You'd need an entire book for each humanoid race just to attempt to get through each possible combination of equipment.

Orc with a Battle Axe
Orc with a Bow
Orc with a Spear and a Hand Axe
Orc with a Sword AND a Bow AND a Hand Axe
etc., etc., etc.

But, then we'd have to contend with a never ending barrage of criticism that WotC hates Trees and is demeaning everyone for thinking they're too stupid to be able to substitute equipment without having it spelled out for them...

Coupled with complaints that Orcs can't use Daggers because there is no "Orc with a Dagger" entry in the 1000 page Orc Manual...

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yep. Let's look at the poster child of complaints out of the monster manual of "too weak and can't do anything" arguments: the ogre. Throw some mix-match armor pieces on him, a tower shield, and an ogre sized battle axe or sword (equivalent to a greataxe or greatsword). Or give an ogre a great crossbow (almost as big as a ballista). I'm pretty sure ogres are familiar with the concept of armor and other weapons. There's nothing stopping a DM from giving monsters gear they logically could have in the game.

 

[Warpiglet]

I like to think about some areas as the close up part of the action in a movie. But just out the main scene you can hear the hooting and howling of orcs approaching.

As you move that far away it could be that you are the first to run into the reinforcements. Your gun might be at disadvantage. You might get grappled. But one thing is certain: there is a reason that parties stick together!

I am not in favor of screwing everything a player does, but running off on your own should be risky. A few hints to that effect might drive the point home.

Not every time. Sometimes. And the third time might leave the ranged person wishing there was a friend nearby to help.

 

[Caliban]

I'm probably missing something because I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't understand how this character isn't triggering another encounter (or even two!) by going that far away. Predators attracted by the sounds of combat that see a lone target, another group of whatever you are fighting, stumbling into something that was hiding from the combat and now feels it has to defend itself, etc.

Enough of that and they will think twice about making the DM pull out a second map...

 

[Benji]

A lot of people came up with some good suggestions. I'd add one other thing - Dragons fly. They also have ranged breath weapons. How do you outrun that?

I'm assuming you don't actually want to kill the sharpshooter and the idea of damaging them isn't because you want them to actually die but instead want them to live in a world where the threat of death a a real thing. Pick a dragon that can but probably won't kill them with it's breath weapon. When the sharpshooter hits, the dragon takes notice and tactically decides to end the ranged threat.

My suggestion with all the stuff you've been given is like only use stuff like this once or twice in any given dungeon/storyline That way you aren't squishing player agency, just occasionally challenging them. That keeps it fun and stops the people on here who are like 'Should this even be a question? Player agency!' from hunting you down.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

I think something you should remember to do is keep the fight dynamic for the sniper that's off the map by keeping the terrain interesting. Since he doesn't have the benefit of the natural dynamics of being in the actual battle you'll need to pick up the slack so it doesn't feel like he's floating in space the second he's off the map.

"You can see half the creatures, you'll need to strafe left/right to see the other half...There's bramble/deep mud so your movement is halfed... The terrain is sloping up/down the father back you go..."

Also, add interesting things while hes out there, especially meaningless stuff, just to possibly peek his curiosity. Maybe you'll get lucky and be able to bait him to investigate for that round instead of just attacking. Make Curiosity the snipers foe.

"You hear the bushes rustle to your left...You see a carcass/corpse half eaten...You smell Wood/Incense burning to the east...You come across an old chest/purse.."

Or you can also just add weird stuff to creep him out a little, that's always a lot of fun.

"You look up, there's a crow. Next round; there's 5 crows overheard cawing. Next round; there's 16 crows overhead staring at you and cawing...You swear you heard a baby cry just around the rock...The tree next to you has your initials carved in it and '+ A.K' inside a carved heart...You look over and u see two squirrels having passionate squirrel love, while a 3rd squirrel watches, eating a nut. Next round; the 3 squirrels are staring at you motionless. Next round; the 3 squirrels attack you, you pervert..."

And last but not least. Encourage the party Dwarf to do what Dwarfs do best and bust his balls a little after every fight, 'cuz that's always fun and annoying. Maybe give the Dwarf player inspiration for it.

"I hope you had a nice little hike while the rest of us got bashed in the heads with hammers...Promise me next time you go picking flowers while we fight you'll make me a pretty garland, daisies are my favourite... I get you want to stay out of melee but you were 100 feet behind the wizard, THE WIZARD! he's wearing a dress for crying out loud and he's YOUR meat shield?!...The Wizard took an axe to the ass and you come back telling us about scratches you got from a pack of sex crazed squirrels?..."

Plus mix in a bunch of the other good advice from the thread once, or twice and I think you'll be fine.