Ranged Sneak Attacks

[Sinklar]

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this as a question, so I'll just give you guys the situation first:

My party is in the woods at night and we are attacked. Luckily, a few of us spot the impending ambush and are not surprised. Everyone in the party has at least 2 levels of Rogue (we're in a Guild) so four of us fade into the night (HIDE). Now, here's what was happening:

Half the party is going toe to toe with the bugbears that were attacking. The other half is shooting arrows at the bugbears from a distance. Combat has already started, BUT the bugears are not "aware" of the people who are hidden, right? So, shouldn't the guys hiding be able to do sneak attack damage on thier attacks? (Our DM ruled yes.)

So, my character is constantly rolling in the high 20's for his Hide, and the Bugbears never make thier Spot checks. That means they don't know where the attack is coming from...right? So, until the enemy knows where the attack is coming from, he's denied his DEX bonus...a situation that means every attack would be a Sneak Attack.

You see, this is something that I've always wondered about. My, and a couple other, characters are doing the 'shoot and move' strategy, and we literally slaughtered the bugbears who never had a clue where these arrows were coming from. Every time they got hit, they's try to Spot us...but they never did.

A character that is 'Blinked' or invisable gets Sneak Attack damage because the enemy is unaware of where the attack is about to come from. He is denied his DEX bonus. Wouldn't this work for a Hidden archer as well?

I have looked through the PHB and DMG...but can find nothing that covers Sneak Attacks in relation to the Hide & Move Silently skills. From what I can tell, the rules state that once combat begins (no more surprise round/no one is flat-footed) such a thing as I showed in the example above cannot happen. Luckily, our DM let common sense carry the day and said that since the enemy had no idea where the attacks were coming from, there was no way they could use thier DEX to avoid them.

Did the DM make the right call?
Has anyone else been in a similar situation?
What rules do you apply for getting S.A. damage that are not covered in the core books?

 

[Phorck]

Here's the rule they give in Song and Silence for sniping like you describe.
Page 37:

Sniping: If you've already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again as a move action. You suffer a -20 circumstance penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.

So, it's possible to do what you did, but you can only get one attack per round and the -20 makes it pretty hard to do.

 

[shilsen]

Sounds like a somewhat generous ruling on the DM's part. I would have given a stiff penalty to the Hide checks, like the rule that Phorck points out (good to know that this situation is actually covered, even if only in the classbooks). Considering that bugbears have darkvision to a range of 60 ft, it would have required some very good rolls to remain hidden. Also, I wouldn't allow a character to fire, move and hide, all in one round (since you refer to a 'shoot and move' strategy). Presumably the hidden PCs stayed within 30 ft of the bugbears, since one can't sneak attack from beyond that range.

 

[Ysgarran]

Here's the rule they give in Song and Silence for sniping like you describe. Page 37:

So, it's possible to do what you did, but you can only get one attack per round and the -20 makes it pretty hard to do.

This seems like a very reasonable rule to follow. I did something similiar before this rule was available. I made the step value a
-10 but had made it cumulative if the character didn't 'scoot' between shots.

A lot depends on the current environment. If it was a dark night (i.e., not a full moon) then the bugbears should have tried to take advantage of their 60' darkvision.

 

[The Savant]

Howdy,

Don't forget that Spot becomes harder with range. Also should be some consideration for circumstance bonuses for concealment i.e. intervening scrub or branches. [Although those concealment bonuses may also benefit the Bugbears when they are getting shot at!] So the -20 isn't that bad.

The Savant

 

[Christian]

The range penalties for the Spot check probably don't come into play much for a rogue trying to Sneak Attack, as that ability has a 30' maximum range.

Now, for a Deepwoods Sniper plinking away with her improved Far Shot ability (I forget what that's called, my MoTW is at home) from 1000' away, that -100 on the Spot check pretty much swamps the -20 on the Hide. Never go picking daisies in the forest if you've ticked off a Deepwoods Sniper.