Ranger - archer AND swordsman?

[Thasmodious]

I haven't played a ranger in 4e yet and was tinkering with the class in the CB. It seemed, on screen at least, that you could make a ranger that was solid at both ranged and melee. The basic question is - can you? And could some of you ranger experts give some examples/maths in support of your position (or point me to such things)? I was specifically poking around with a bugbear ranger in two ways, starting with 18s in both Str and Dex (after racial), or 16/17 as starters with a bit of wisdom and con. There seem to be plenty of powers that work as either/or giving some nice versatility, but I don't know how they compare on the table to the more specialized powers. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Llamas Notsheep]

You can make a pretty effective balanced ranger, although he won't excel at either. He'll only be *gasp* on par with most other strikers. The main disadvantage you face with splitting things up is the heavy feat cost. You're going to have to double up on focus and expertise feats. If you want big hitters, you'll also probably need two weapon proficiency feats - one for a greatbow or superior crossbow, and one for bastard swords or triple-headed flails. You'll also find that stuff like TWF and TWD don't benefit you when you're using a bow, and vice versa. You'll also find it massively expensive trying to keep all of your weapons up to date. You also won't be able to get (e.g.) both iron armbands of power and bracers of archery, and it's those static bonuses stacking up that make rangers so incredible as pure damage strikers.

All of that said, if you balance your feat and item choices well, you could make a very effective generalist that (without doing the math here, because I'm hungry) would probably do as much damage in both ranged and melee as most other strikers who aren't using one of the snazzy tricks (half-elf crit fishers, hybrid eladrin feychargers, etc.).

 

[Squizzle]

We have a two-trident (soon to be two-tratnyr) ranger in my game, and he works excellently. Thrown weapons are very much the way to do this, I feel. My game's ranger's player has expressed a commitment to the Avalanche Hurler paragon path, to up his damage dice, but he really does murder his way through vast crowds, with ease, already.

 

[javcs]

You also need to be careful about which powers you take - to make sure that you can use most (if not all) of them whether you're two-handing or working the range.
You also get somewhat shafted on ability scores - to remain effective at higher levels, you need to keep boosting both Strength and Dexterity, which means you can't boost Wisdom - and that means you get less benefit from all the +Wisdom powers.

IMO, the multi-purpose ranger is going to be better off at lower levels than at higher levels.
Once you hit Paragon, especially, you have to pick which route you're focusing on more.
There will be some specialization even at the low levels - you need to pick which build option you will be using. Generally speaking, I think that most people will pick the TWF option over the archery option for a multi-purpose ranger. This will tend to mean that you're not going to be quite so specialized for archery, because you can't take the archery specific paragon paths.

As for at wills - well, Twin Strike is the obvious choice, and the second one is more of a toss-up between Hit and Run and Nimble Strike, depending on how you're going to play - if you're human (which is worth considering for the feat), you get all three.

For encounters and dailies - your to-hits will either be unequal or you'll be getting less benefit from +Wisdom powers. This means either you will be looking for as many attacks as possible (especially when using the lower ability) to increase your likelyhood of putting out damage or you'll want to consider powers that aren't +Wisdom.

But above all, at higher levels, you'll be a resource sink to maintain high combat efficacy - you'll either be using thrown weapons that aren't as good for ranged work, or you'll be needing at least 3 weapons (or one ranged weapon and a double weapon) that are level appropriate.
In essence, you wind up needing to get more of the party resources allocated to you, have one or more weapons fall behind in level, skimp on armor or other non-weapon items, and/or decide to retrain and specialize a tad bit more.

Of course, if you do want to do this, you should talk with your DM about some of the issues, and hopefully the DM will be kind and adjust Treasure finds accordingly - say instead of just one shiny new melee weapon for the ranger to play with, a linked pair - both have to be wielded/held/worn/possessed by the same person to get the full benefit of their powers, otherwise, they are lower level weapons or otherwise not as good as when the same person uses both of them. And, of course, attempting to recycle one, but not both, would be a Bad Idea, and merchants wouldn't want to buy only part of a pair.

 

[Turtlejay]

We have a two-trident (soon to be two-tratnyr) ranger in my game, and he works excellently. Thrown weapons are very much the way to do this, I feel. My game's ranger's player has expressed a commitment to the Avalanche Hurler paragon path, to up his damage dice, but he really does murder his way through vast crowds, with ease, already.

Listen to this guy. Tratnyr has good range for a thrown weapon, and Avalanche hurler will increase the die one size when thrown. Also, they get a better-than-quick draw feat, which is nice. Not that you will need it, because with two heave thrown weapons, you won't have to worry about switching weapons when you go from melee to ranged, and you have no greater problem than any other dual wielder when it comes to enchantments.

The point about not raising Wis is valid, but the utility you get from being more versatile is a good tradeoff.

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

Versatile Weapon is practicly mandatory.

Str-based rangers should be picking up Dex anyways, so it's more viable than you'd think at first glance, and there are a ton of powers that work both ways. This -is- an intended build for the class.

 

[Shin Okada]

A little big weak in ranged attacks. But how about using Double-Axe and buy Dynamic version of it?

With a minor action, you can change your Double-Axe into a Hand Axe. That all you have to pay is the cost of one magic weapon (Dynamic weapon costs equal to to a usual Magic weapon). And you can use Axe-related feats for both of your melee and ranged attacks.

Or, maybe you can wield two Dynamic Waraxes. It will cost more. But will inflict slightly bigger melee damages.

 

[Turtlejay]

What a great idea, dynamic weapons. Kind of almost a best of both worlds scenario. Good input, there.

 

[doggywoggy]

I am using

a dynamic war ax on my paladin and it rocks big time. Can't hit that guy over there? Switch it to a halberd. Can't hit the orcs a square behind the portcullis? Make it a longspear (to poke through). Can't hit that guy, way way over there? Hand ax.

Executioner's ax can be useful even if you can't get the proficiency bonus with it. Think of it like having free power attack (-2 atk for + 1 dmg and high crit). Dwarves would be even better off, if they have their weapon training racial feat to use all kinds no problem.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Half-orc.

The best of both worlds for a Ranger. Go with two-handed style for the HPs. And take powers you can use for both melee and range, with some at higher levels that might be just melee or ranged for special occasions etc.