*Rant* Standard/core classes needed

[Zimri]

I've seen a few threads on here that touched this issue so I though I would toss in my 2 coppers

[/rant on]

Maybe I am just an old-timer at 32 years old, or maybe I just didn't see it until EQ came out, a third option is that (and this is sure to get laughs) I just don't power game in that way.

Ever since the big group based MMO has come out though I have been seeing lots of things in pen and paper RPG as well as MMO (and I find the idea ludicrous in both) saying that unless your party consists of a primary healer(cleric), primary armored based fighter (meat shield) a primary offensive caster (sorceror, wizard) then you are all silly for being in a less than efficient group and can't do anything important.

These are GAMES folks played for fun by people that want to take a divergence from reality.Ya know what you do if you discover that your party needs more healing when you are playing D&D you either 1) buy more potions in town to reduce down time (which in D&D is again mostly ludicrous. "During the week we are resting I want to do X Y and Z, okay an hour later a week passes and you go off again). Unless of course you are in the middle of a dungeon in which case you a) hoof it back to town or whatnot or B) stay where you are since usually there are no "pathing" monsters espescially if you hole yourself and your party up in a room and barricade the door. 2) you hire a henchperson next town you are in 3) You multiclass as whatever you are lacking in (this works better if done at lower character levels)

 

[Crothian]

uh...what's MMO??

And the idea of haing a balanced party is nothing new. In the good old days of Dungeon crawling in first edition you had to make sure you had a fighter, cleric, wmagic user, and a thief...then after those slots were filled could you get something a little more exotic. And I mhated the idea then as much as I do now.

But I've never seen or heard of anyone being made fun of because of it. Balanced parties are boring. You want to see a group think? Send them up against traps with out a rogue? Missing these so called key elemetns of a party is great, plus it doesn't force someone to a class they don't want to play. I can't count how many times someone was forced to play the Cleric because no one else wanted to; but they all agreed it was essential.

 

[Zimri]

Sorry I was in rant mode and made assumptions which is always a bad thing, espescially when the assumption is "everyone knows all the terms I know"

MMO Massive Multiplayer Online. Those letters are usually followed by RPG. IE EQ is the Largest MMORPG to date, while meridian 59 was among the first mmorpg-s. Rarely do these actually involve much "role-playing" and by those that spend 16 hours a day playing them I doubt they qualify much as "games".

I must have been spared it earlier on in RPG days. back when PnP stood for pen and paper not "play nice policies" (an MMO thing to discourage rude behavior).

It's always nice to have a cleric around, but I can't agree with a group that says "DM I can't believe you let another player in that isn't a cleric, make the new person be a cleric".

 

[Crothian]

Well, those on line games are little more then video games from what I understand. I guess in something like the EVerquest RPG a more blanced party would be good as that plays a bit more like the on line version. Also, I could see XCrawl demanding certain classes since it is a dungeon crawl compition and the group mindset and versatility is important there.

 

[MDSnowman]

Party dynamics has always been a part of the game. Have you ever run a party without a cleric? The other team members have always been at a serious disadvantage. Playing a D&D game... you can get around these problems and go after the bad guys anyway.

In massive multi-player online games however their is no story, barely anything in the way of a character. Things like dungeon crawling are always reduced to a near mathmatical formula. Take Final Fantasy XI for instance, if your Warrior doesn't provoke then you're considered to be a "bad" fighter and people will refuse to play with you (reducing your Expereince gain to a crawl). And if you want to try an interesting combination of classes or powers people will hesitate to invite you into a group because they have trouble accepting a combination that hasn't been proven, and acknowledged as successful.

This is the real thing that turns me off to this kind of games, you become defined more by your items than anything else.Because it's acknowledged that if you're a Paladin/Thief then you're a waste of space in a party... you have to be a Paladin/Warrior. You're forced to be a cookie cutter. In paper and pencil RPGs this same min maxing isn't as prevelent.

 

[DiFier]

uh...what's MMO??

Good Question. Monster Manual Only?

I guess I'm lucky I've never played with a standard party. my first 3.0 experience was with a teifling sorcerer/rogue, a overweight elven (disguised as a young human) chef (read rogue) a Sadistic Human Cleric and a Human Bard who had a thing for elven women. that game fell apart cause 2 of the players decided to try to out sneaky each other. (taking treasure for themselves) and sorta tried to out evil each other too.

my second group (which we are still playing but are giving the DM a break while the other player runs a game) is just two characters a rogue/fighter/wizard slayer who is a crime lord and a fighter/wizard/spellsword who is a noble and both of which are former members of the Freeport city watch. this isn't an evil campaign even if on of the main characters is a crime lord.

We also played a lower level three shot game in the same world playing evil PCs when a friend visited for a little bit over Christmas. Evil might be a little strong. Lets call us morally ambiguous. It took place in Freeport too. that had a straight rogue (con artist) a bard/(non-core core class that made him a sweet talker) who was also a con artist and a Neutral Cleric of trickery and the sea who's job was to relieve other (people, churches, cities, countries) of magic items that were precious to the god of the sea. That went rather well for 3 morally ambiguous, non regular role, characters. really well infact.

 

[Zimri]

Party dynamics has always been a part of the game. Have you ever run a party without a cleric? The other team members have always been at a serious disadvantage. Playing a D&D game... you can get around these problems and go after the bad guys anyway.

In massive multi-player online games however their is no story, barely anything in the way of a character. Things like dungeon crawling are always reduced to a near mathmatical formula. Take Final Fantasy XI for instance, if your Warrior doesn't provoke then you're considered to be a "bad" fighter and people will refuse to play with you (reducing your Expereince gain to a crawl). And if you want to try an interesting combination of classes or powers people will hesitate to invite you into a group because they have trouble accepting a combination that hasn't been proven, and acknowledged as successful.

This is the real thing that turns me off to this kind of games, you become defined more by your items than anything else.Because it's acknowledged that if you're a Paladin/Thief then you're a waste of space in a party... you have to be a Paladin/Warrior. You're forced to be a cookie cutter. In paper and pencil RPGs this same min maxing isn't as prevelent.

I've tossed together a group of six people waiting to be invited to other groups in a tier 2 plane (none of which means anything to you if you don't play eq) Our healer was a druid, our "tankers" were me (a monk) and a ranger, our "mezzer" (crowd control) was a shaman we also had a necromancer and a mage. None of the core classes at all. we kicked butt for 5 or so hours. We certainly got more exp than we would have just sitting around waiting.

City of Heroes gets away from loot entirely (there isn't any). Some people don't care for the super hero genre though. Wish is looking good for an MMO. Quests aren't static, neither are mob spawn points, and much more dynamic (read GM lead) content.

 

[Black Omega]

Good Question. Monster Manual Only?

Short for MMORPG or Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

with a good DM you could have all (insert class) and plobably live through it plus have more role playing.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

ever played the CRPGs Icewind Dale2 or Baldur's Gate2? I almost never use spell casters, some times (rarely) I don't use tanks.
PS: they're both D&D rules
PPS:Baldur's Gate2 is second edition