D&D 5E Ravenloft Previews of Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir

WotC has been sprinkling previews of individual Ravenloft domains to various websites -- including Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir. Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is only a couple of weeks away, coming out on May 18th!

Dementlieu​

• Forbes takes a look Dementlieu, which has inspirations like Cinderella, The Masque of the Red Death, and Dark City. "Dementlieu is one of over 30 domains of dread detailed in the book. It’s a sharp contrast to Barovia’s dark forest and looming Gothic castle on a hill. Instead it’s covered in a glamorous sheen of fine clothes and fancy parties. Everyone is dying to be invited to the Grand Masquerade held by Duchess Saidra d’Honaire every week on her private island. And, in many cases, killed if they are discovered at the ball if they’re not supposed to be there."
• Syfy Wire looks at Lamordia, inspired by Frankenstein. "Many of the Domains of Dread are inspired by some horror tale or piece of creepy folklore, and Lamordia definitely has its roots in Frankenstein. But while the Domain is inspired by that classic horror story, its elements are then shot through the lens of D&D adventures and explored to dozens of horrific extremes. Mordenheim's land isn't just about resurrection gone awry, it's also the Domain for all different types of science gone wrong, bizarre experiments, body horror weirdness, and grim tales of society versus a frigid land. Just as there's more to Frankenstein than a scientist who abandoned his child, there's more to Lamordia than stitches and semi-dead flesh."
• Polygon has Har'Akir, an Egyptian-themed domain. "Why is there a Domain that is a desert that is riddled with these ancient, inexplicable haunted monuments and ruined pyramids? How does a Domain like that exist? How does it make sense? To an extent it doesn’t, and it’s going to be the players that come and explore that, who are some of the only people that realize that the entirety of the domain is, to an extent, gaslighting them."

Ankhetop, darklord of Har'Akir

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[Charlaquin]

except it isn't (Strahd maybe i am not familar with that name and to lazy to look it up now), but Zarovich or in different slavic spellings Zarovic (with a hook underneath the c) or Zarewitsch (german) means son of the Zar (or Tsar), the russian emperor. So it is not so made up like you might think. Many slavic names end with -vic or the like, it just means "son of"

The -ovich suffix denotes a patronymic though, not a family name. And if it was a patronymic, it would suggest that his father’s name was Zar, not that his father was a tsar. At any rate, it certainly wouldn’t be preceded by Von, which is Germanic, not Slavic, and also means “son of/daughter of”. And Strahd sounds like a slavicization of Stroud, which is English.

 

[RealAlHazred]

<Edit> Found this picture that is also in the book, so any argument they are trying to get away from egyptian-style attire doesn't make any sense, and really makes the Anktepot picture look worse in my eyes.

View attachment 136502

I'm just thrilled he's sharpened the correct side of his khopesh! I feel like decades of blue-in-the-face arguing on inconsequential gamer message boards wasn't in vain!

 

[overgeeked]

Which would be fantastic, if we want to paint the PC's as evil, rapacious thieves and plunderers. However, I doubt most mainstream settings would try that though.

Oh please. Even in the early 80's, you have a practically perennial Dracula movie. Never minding animated versions, and Count Chocula. I'd wager that Dracula is a fair bit more ingrained in pop culture that Karloff's The Mummy. Other than the fact that The Mummy had a mummy, I doubt most people could tell you anything about the plot of the Karloff movies.

Not to be indelicate, but, that would put your wife and her friends at over 30. Which isn't really countering my point.

And when that genre is based on unbelievably racist underpinnings? Should we just whitewash those again as well the way that was done in the 1980's? Recycle them unchanged, introduce them and acquaint the audience with themes that quite frankly, should make people cringe? Is that what you're suggesting? Or, should we keep the stuff that's cool and interesting and doesn't make people want to wash their eyes out with bleach after reading it and cut out the stuff that reads like white supremicist fanfic?

You’re playing a game with inherently evil races where all those inherently evil races are encoded with decades to centuries old real-world racist imagery, where a reoccurring goal of the PCs is to invade those evil races’ homes, kill them all, steal everything that you can, and rest up so you can go out and kill even more ugly and darker skinned evil races. D&D is the genocide and colonialism role-playing game. Congrats. You’re already playing white supremacy fanfic the RPG.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And when that genre is based on unbelievably racist underpinnings? Should we just whitewash those again as well the way that was done in the 1980's? Recycle them unchanged, introduce them and acquaint the audience with themes that quite frankly, should make people cringe? Is that what you're suggesting? Or, should we keep the stuff that's cool and interesting and doesn't make people want to wash their eyes out with bleach after reading it and cut out the stuff that reads like white supremicist fanfic?

I don’t even know how to respond to this except to say I think you are projecting a lot here and overreacting just a tad.

 

[Retreater]

This seems to be turning into one of "those" threads. I'll go ahead and apologize if any of my posts have raised the temperature. I'll make a real effort to stay positive in any future comments.

 

[tetrasodium]

When Ravenloft came out the Mummy was nearly 60 years old, but most of us recognized the imagery because it was part of pop culture. I'd be surprised if it still isn't. But lots of genre settings don't bend the material because the audience lacks knowledge, they instead focus on introducing and acquainting the audience with the genre.

Thi k of it like this... When van rictens guide comes out in a couple weeks there will be kids reading it who has parents in or not long out of diapers when the original ravenloft came out like 40 years ago the rework let's both groups use this as a foundation to build great d&d stories off rather than just a way to build karloff off d&d and still allows you to build karloff if you want

 

[Micah Sweet]

Which would be fantastic, if we want to paint the PC's as evil, rapacious thieves and plunderers. However, I doubt most mainstream settings would try that though.



Oh please. Even in the early 80's, you have a practically perennial Dracula movie. Never minding animated versions, and Count Chocula. I'd wager that Dracula is a fair bit more ingrained in pop culture that Karloff's The Mummy. Other than the fact that The Mummy had a mummy, I doubt most people could tell you anything about the plot of the Karloff movies.



Not to be indelicate, but, that would put your wife and her friends at over 30. Which isn't really countering my point.



And when that genre is based on unbelievably racist underpinnings? Should we just whitewash those again as well the way that was done in the 1980's? Recycle them unchanged, introduce them and acquaint the audience with themes that quite frankly, should make people cringe? Is that what you're suggesting? Or, should we keep the stuff that's cool and interesting and doesn't make people want to wash their eyes out with bleach after reading it and cut out the stuff that reads like white supremicist fanfic?

See, I have no problem with any of these story elements existing in a D&D product. Not one. But I can't see a reason that does not have to do with IP protection and other money reasons for them to change the existing lore for Ravenloft in this way instead of simply creating new domains (or an entirely new campaign setting) that explore what they want to explore. This is by far the biggest suite of changes to lore they've ever done to one of their campaign settings, IMO, and I don't see a creative reason why they couldn't have just created new material instead of telling entirely new stories with old names bolted on. If Ravenloft is that problematic (and I can see why it would be), don't bring it back at all, or keep the domain concept but make a bunch of new domains that conform to modern storytelling standards. There's no need to keep the old names for new creative work except to increase sales through name recognition. I can understand that reason, but I can't respect it.

 

[Rabulias]

Nothing never ever about Har´Akir ever was even remotely close to any kind of steampunk, unless i suffer from Mandela effect.

Disclaimer: I am not at all familiar with Ravenloft lore (other than the original Ravenloft module back in AD&D 1e days), so I may make preposterous, obvious, and/or outright wrong observations. I was just riffing off the image of Ankhtepot and others' comments referring to it as looking "steampunk."

 

[Remathilis]

See, I have no problem with any of these story elements existing in a D&D product. Not one. But I can't see a reason that does not have to do with IP protection and other money reasons for them to change the existing lore for Ravenloft in this way instead of simply creating new domains (or an entirely new campaign setting) that explore what they want to explore. This is by far the biggest suite of changes to lore they've ever done to one of their campaign settings, IMO, and I don't see a creative reason why they couldn't have just created new material instead of telling entirely new stories with old names bolted on. If Ravenloft is that problematic (and I can see why it would be), don't bring it back at all, or keep the domain concept but make a bunch of new domains that conform to modern storytelling standards. There's no need to keep the old names for new creative work except to increase sales through name recognition. I can understand that reason, but I can't respect it.

This is a catch 22: which version would annoy the most people:

1. A new Ravenloft book that features no or few classic domains but makes new werewolf/mummy/Frankenstein domains while ignoring the old ones.

2. Release the classic setting with no lore updates, splitting the reaction between those who feel they can just use their old books and those outraged by the various issues the old setting had going unaddressed.

3. Release a new version of the setting that takes many elements of the classic setting but reinvents them for more modern audience, with various changes ranging from none to total overhaul.

4. Realize the only winning move is not too play; begin only making Pachinko machines.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Do you not think this is somewhat hyperbolic?

Preservation of Egyptian Antiquities and Sites is part of a shared world heritage. The portrayal of tomb robbing as being a white colonial attitude is pretty unsophisticated. More antiquities were stolen from tombs by Eqyptian nationals than ever by British and French archeologists, and while no doubt a large number of items went into private collections a huge amount was also preserved for shared human knowledge and understanding.

Tomb robbing is also not limited to the days of Howard Carter. Sites have been recently at risk from Egyptian criminal organizations, and even everyday citizens. Citizens are building houses on precious sites and damaging ancient wonders that aren’t understood by those who are just looking for somewhere to live. The government couldn’t protect them. Who owns humanity’s history?

The Loss and Looting of Egyptian Antiquities

Even now the morality of Egyptology of the 19th and 20th is debated and as does Egyptology today. The museum in Cairo is described as the worlds worst museum displaying the worlds greatest treasures. Poor arrangement, antiquated displays, environmental issues, even water leaks into cases!

Protecting Tutankhamun - Victoria and Albert Museum

Can you expand on those ‘unbelievably racist underpinnings’ that make you want to ‘wash your eyes out with bleach’ and that reads like ‘white supremacist fan-fix’?... I ain’t seeing it.

Debate and things to learn sure. Let’s just keep things proportional.

I don't speak for @Hussar , but it's well known that depictions like the Mummy and Indiana Jones show a view of foreigners showing up at an archeological dig, with the implication that whatever they find will be carted back to their own country (England/America usually).

Ignore the depictions for a moment (these are films for entertainment, they aren't meant to depict real-life well), and focus on actual colonialism. It is quite factual that countries like Great Britain in the days of their empire took a lot of really incredible pieces from all around the world and put them in their own museums back in England. It is an ongoing problem that countries like India have tried to get some of these pieces back, with the answer being a blanket "no way hose-y." It doesn't help that many of the things you cite (such as locals tomb robbing, or that local museums are underfunded and badly maintained) have been used as justification for colonial-era powers keeping hold of artifacts they stole from other cultures.

I'm sure many of the museums are not actually racist and legitimately believe such pieces will be better maintained and protected in their exhibits, but that alone is not a great excuse for keeping hold of other culture's pieces of culture and history.