D&D 5E Ravenloft: Your custom domains

[TheIdeaOfGood]

Since the new book encourages DMs to build their own custom domains, I thought...why not a thread dedicated to those?
I'll start with the custom domain I'm working on, something inspired by Dark Souls.

Danueth

Deathless Domain of Twilight and Stagnation


Darklord: First Lord Llewellyn


Genres: Dark Fantasy and Cosmic Horror


Hallmarks: Faded glory, fear, endless repetition without renewal


Mist Talismans: Sword worn down through overuse, old wooden ladle, handful of coal that still glimmers without ever fully going cold



Crumbling remnants of castles, cathedrals and mausoleums dot a landscape that is at once verdant and barren. Plants are trapped in an aching half-life, many beset by parasites and fungus but unable to die even as they themselves no longer bear fruit.


Life reigns supreme here, but it is a life that has long forgotten its purpose. Wounds may fester and become infested with flies and maggots, but while the pain may be unbearable, it never leads to the release of death.


If there is a sun, no one has seen it in a long time, only a diffuse, twilight glow escaping from behind the omnipresent heavy cloud cover.

Nohing larger than a bug can bring forth new life, as all life energy is needed to keep perpetuating those creatures that are already alive.

Is it any wonder that the inhabitants have lost their minds? Called the Wasted, these poor souls wander endlessly, mindlessly performing the same tasks over and over and reacting with insane rage towards anyone interrupting them before resuming their futile works.

Others try and stave off madness by finding for themselves meaningful tasks, anything that helps them delude themselves into thinking their lives and their actions matter – even if gained coin is not spent, vanquished foes just get up again and salvation has long lost any kind of meaning.

But every once in a while something resurfaces – an ancient prophecy that promises an end to this eternal, unnatural life. The prophecy changes every time, always demanding different tasks but those always culminate in the slaying of First Lord Llewellyn.

If the prophecy is fulfilled, night descends upon the land...for a day. For a day, every creature can enjoy rest. But the next day, it all resumes. Lord Llewellyn is resurrected in Death’s Cauldron and every creature awakens, their mind clear...and that one night of rest makes the memory of the hell that is eternal life all the more painful.


Noteworthy features:

Those familiar with Danueth know the following facts:

• Nothing can die in Danueth. Wounds heal quickly, but their pain is wholly felt. Diseases are more virulent within the land’s borders but cannot cause the victim to perish.
• Sleep is impossible while within the lands but rest can still be attained – in a manner of speaking.
• The land is covered in the remnants of a once-mighty kingdom and fabulous treasures lie about unattended.
• Those who are not Wasted yet cling to their self-appointed task with religious fanaticism and will not hesitate to betray, maim or abuse in the pursuit of their tasks.
• There are no children in the whole realm

Settlements and sites
Danueth was once a land of marshes, high moors, coastal cliffs and seemingly endless wood- and grasslands, enjoying a temperate climate that allowed for both agriculture and animal husbandry. Today, the fields are overgrown and from the swamps creep parasitic growths that would choke the life out of more wholesome plantlife – if it could only die.


Cymruh (Zim-Roo)

This little fishing village is the first place many visitors see, for the cliffs near its shore have spelled doom for many a ship that got lost in the Mists. The crew eventually ends up being washed up on the shore, mysteriously not drowned and often stumbles into Cymruh, a dismal village of ramshackle driftwood houses, leaky boats and buckets upon buckets of fish that still flop about, endlessly suffocating. Those few locals who are not Wasted are friendly, if a bit disturbing-looking, for nearly all of them have become hosts to various parasitic sea life. They will warn newcomers and if asked for a boat to escape, they will shrug and let them take whatever boat they want.

In the end, the boat and the fugitives will return anyway.

Since eating something that just cannot die is extremely unpleasant, the locals have given up fishing for the most part and have resorted to distilling alcohol which they drink in copious amounts.

It helps to dull the hunger pangs and staves off Wastedom. And if it makes one blind, what is there to see anyway?


Brennach (Brenn-ak)

Once, this was the jewel of the realm, a metropolis housing more than 400,000 people. Architects had slowly turned the city into a true marvel, an interconnected maze of walkways, thoroughfares, spires and tunnels, of public forums, aqueducts, fountains, palaces and cathedrals to Belenus. Statuary was found at every corner, reliefs and paintings telling of the glory of Danueth, of its people coming from the sea to settle the wilds and cleanse them of monsters. Even the places where the lowborn gathered were filled with statues, the Restorator's Guild responsible for maintaining the myriad pieces of art.

And in the center was the palace of the First Lord, ruler of the lands, a many-spired heart of the city cast in white marble and gold and silver roofs. Legends speak of times when those who had seen the city would rather end their lives than endure the heartbreak of having to leave again.

Today, the city has fallen silent, the statuary defaced or just fallen to ruin as vines creep over everything. Wasted stalk the streets, a danger to anyone who is still has their wits about them while the darker corners of the city have become home to monsters.

A few brave souls are holding out, staging expeditions to reclaim more of the city from the Wasted, but they are just delaying their own descent into madness.

And in the palace, First Lord Llewellyn broods on his throne, surveying his work. He abhors his neverending life, but fears death even more, daring not to leave his audience chamber, the place where he slew the Green Knight and ended the reign of death.

 

[Faolyn]

Ages ago, I was working on a new version of Bleutspur, one that was very much a Lovecraft Country affair--"normal" town, horrors underneath. Unfortunately, there was a computer crash so I lost everything and have only some memories of what I was going to do.

In light of the new take on Bleutspur, with them going for an alien abduction kind of theme, I'm going to try to take what I remember and redo it.

The domain consists of the town of Marswick and its surroundings. The town itself seems fairly normal, rather New England-y, of course. Built around a large lake, so there's a fishing industry of sorts. Outside of town there's some sparse woods, areas of wet ground and pools of standing water that isn't quite a marsh but close enough, and in one of the drier areas, a ring of standing stones.

The town is actually a controlled experiment for the mind flayers, doing all sorts of weird psychological studies on the townsfolk. The darklord would likely be the mayor or other important townsfolk who is in on it.

 

[Remathilis]

This is still draft, apologies for typos or errors

The Mesonoxian Archive​

Domain of Forbidden Secrets

Darklord: Noctis, Codex infinita Tenebrae Responsories (Book of Unfathomable Darkness)

Genre: Gothic Horror, Occult Mysteries, Psychological

Hallmarks: Forbidden Lore, Mysteries, Outcasts

Mist Talismans: Library Books, Symbol of Noctis, Library Card

Along a long, forsaken road stands an old manor house, looming on a hill over a quiet sleepy village. Inside the mansion lives an eccentric old collector and his vast collection of obscure books, tomes, and artifacts collected throughout the realms of the Mists. However, locked below in the vaults under the mansion is the true gems of the collection; a series of powerful and evil items kept preventing their use by those who would spread pain and misery.

Noteworthy Features​

Those Familiar with the Mesonoxian Archive know these facts.

• Blackwell Manor is an ancestral estate of the Blackwell family, a long line of successful academics. The site was once home to an elite Darkonese boarding school but has not accepted new students for many years.
• Dr Allister Blackwell was once a famous academic and monster hunter akin to Dr Van Richten, but suddenly retired to devote his time to the Archive. He has been known to hire travelers to retrieve rare tomes or relics for his collection.
• The Mesonoxian Archive is perhaps one of the greatest collections of lore known to mankind, with books ranging from the mundane to the exotic. The collection focuses on academic topics such as history, geography, medicine, sciences, as well as esoteric topics like religion, arcanology, alchemy, occult lore, and spiritualism.
• Dr Blackwell has only a few staff on hand; a butler, a maid, an archivist assistant, and a groundskeeper.

Settlements and Sites​

Blackwell Estate. The largest building in the domain is a stately two-storied mansion located atop a gentle hill surrounded by wooded reaches. The Mansion’s dark stone and intricately carved grotesques give the building an ominous appearance. The mansion once could house multiple families, servants and guests, but in recent years is home only to Dr Allister Blackwell and a small collection of staff. As such, much of the house is darkened and dusty from disuse.

Below the manor is the actual Archives where Dr Blackwell keeps the tomes and artifacts he has collected for safe keeping. It is here that Noctis is kept bound, slowly collecting its arsenal of items it hopes will one day allow it to break fee. Dr Blackwell forbids anyone from entering the underground archives without his consent.

The Darklord​

Noctis began its existence, it is believed, as one of the many volumes of spells penned by the archlich Vecna. When he ascended to Godhood, some of the divine power of the God of Secret’s infused in his tome Codex infinita Tenebrae Responsories, or the Book of Unfathomable Darkness, giving it sentience. Its first desire was to seek additional knowledge, gathering all manner of dark knowledge to it and absorbing it into its pages. It also found it could influence others to aid it, manipulating them with promises of power, secrets, or desires as well as read their minds and unconsciously influencing their dreams. This sentience, which named itself Noctis, spent the next century collecting enough power and knowledge to itself ascend to godhood like its creator had. This raw desire drew the tome into the Mists.

Intrigued by the dark nature it found itself in, it moved through the domains on the backs of hapless scholars, learning about the nature of the Mists, darklords, and the domains. It did not forget its original intentions either, and found the domain was full of dark secrets no mortal was meant to know. Eventually though, the book found itself in the possession of Dr Alister Blackwell. Dr Blackwell discovered the book’s inherent evil nature and vowed to find a way to destroy it. Noctis, amused by the good Doctor’s foolishness, watched as he failed in every attempt. The book even made Dr Blackwell an offer, it would allow him to learn the secrets of its own destruction if he only chose to open and read what was written in its pages. Dr Blackwell, knowing this was a trick, declined and instead used his ancestral mansion as home to lock away the evil book while he found a way to destroy it. The Mists rewarded the Doctor with the seclusion he sought when the lands around the Blackwell Estate became their own domain.

Noctis remains in the heart of the Mesonoxian Archive, bound with powerful spells and wards that limit his ability to influence the domain it rules. This frustrates the book beyond all comprehension and it itself seeks to find the knowledge it needs to take control of its domain. To that end, it began influencing Dr Blackwell through dreams to collect other powerful evil artifacts and tomes of forbidden knowledge in the hopes of keeping them out of the hands of those who would use them for evil. Dr Blackwell has stored each item he has found in the Archive along with Noctis, who itself has studied these malevolent items. Eventually, Noctis believes it will learn the secret to taking control of its realm and then it can return to seeking divinity, while Dr Blackwell, an old man now, desperately seeks both the secret to destroy Noctis while also finding other powerful evil and stashing them safely where others cannot reach them.

Noctis’ Powers and Dominion​

Trapped in the Archive, Noctis has limited influence while the good doctor still lives. That said, it’s not as powerless as Dr Blackwell had hoped.

Forbidden Lore. Noctis’s pages are filled with all manner of dark secrets, moreso than its apparent size should reasonably contain. The exact extent of knowledge it offers is up to the DM but is rumored to contain the contents of the book of vile darkness, the manual of golems (any), as well as all spells in the Player’s Handbook.

Sentience. The book is considered a sentient magical item with an 18 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, and 14 Charisma. It can speak, read, and understand all known languages and communicate telepathically to any creature within 60 feet. It can also see and hear up to 60 feet.

Mind Manipulation. The book can detect thoughts on any living creature who enters the Archive. Once per week, it can cast dream on any creature within the domain.

Animation. The book can animate objects at will, most commonly itself to act like a tiny animated object. It can also animate other objects near it and use them to attack. The wards Dr Blackwell has placed has suppressed this ability.

Indestructible. So far, all attempts to destroy the book have met with failure. It is immune to mundane effect like mold, water, or bookworms, and even if ripped, destroyed, or burned it reforms within 24 hours.

Noctis’s Torment​

The biggest problem for Noctis is that thanks to the wards placed on it by Dr Blackwell, it lacks much of full power. It cannot animate itself or other objects, its ability to influence the minds of others is limited to mind-reading, telepathy and dreams, and it cannot even close its domain’s borders like other darklords.

• Noctis is bound within the library archives, far the knowledge it craves. Only when new people or new things enter the archive can it learn something new, and that is an exceedingly rare occurrence.
• Noctis feels Vecna has abandoned it to this cruel fate and believes when it is freed it will be able to challenge Vecna as the God of Secrets. As such, it cannot abide any mention of the archlich or its cult.
• Noctis is not fully in control of its domain. It cannot close the borders of its domain and has limited influence on the going-ons of the domain. This further aggravates it, knowing it possesses these great powers and cannot exert them.

Roleplaying Noctis​

Noctis acts dispassionate and aloof, but it has an extreme desire for knowledge and often voices displeasure at its current imprisonment. Above all, it seeks added information and enjoys debating others to understand what makes them tick, as well as to discern its dark secrets to use to manipulate them.

• Personality: I seek to learn all I can about a topic or person.
• Ideal: Knowledge is the purest form of power.
• Bond: This library contains all the knowledge I have learned. It is a temple to my genius.
• Flaw: My frustration sometimes leads my anger to override my intellectual dispassion.

Other Denizens of the Mesonoxian Archive​

Dr. Allister Blackwell – Owner of the Blackwell estate, doctor, metaphysician, monster hunter, and keeper of the Mesonoxian Archives. He has gathered a group of potential recruits to assist in gathering some of the most dangerous artifacts, tomes, and relics in the domains and securing them for safe keeping. His most dangerous recovered item is a sentient, malevolent book called Noctis who has made his life’s work to destroy. He was prophesied by a Vistani he would die soon and hopes these recruits will be able to replace him as keeper of the Archives.

Mr. Edgar Danforth– Butler and head servant of Dr. Blackwell. While his demeanor and speech befit a classically trained Mordentish butler, he harbors a dark secret; he was attacked decades ago and infected with lycanthropy. He keeps his urges in check, but on certain nights must excuse himself to safely hunt in the woods near the mansion.

Ms. Margret Agnes – The head cook and maid of the estate. Ms Agnes became Allister’s servant after he saved her life from being burned as a witch by a fearful mob in Barovnia. She uses some of minor magics to aid in her domestic work and has a trove of lore on all manner of folk magic and witchcraft.

Mrs. Katherine Lane – Allister’s personal secretary and archivist assistant, Katherine is haunted by the ghost of her husband Harold who died shortly after their wedding. Only Katherine can see or speak with Harold, but his occasional ghostly presence can be detected by eerie phenomenon like moving books or snuffed candles. Katherine is a cheery and pleasant sort but is utterly devoted to her dead husband and rarely does anything without consulting with him first.

Anton Delarue - Anton is the groundskeeper of the Estate. He’s a man of few words, prefers solitude, works tirelelessly, and isn’t completely alive; he escaped Larmorida after being experimented on. He had no memories of his prior existence, except fleeting memories of a large prison built on the edge of a swamp.

 

[Venom5998]

Domain: Ur-Asceldin

Darklord: Asceldin (God of Mercy)

Genre: Body horror, Dark Fantasty

Hallmarks: Naivety, self mutilation, Betrayal, Delusion

Technological Era: Chivalric

Mist Talismans: cracked holy symbol, mummifed leach, worm ridden bread

background: Asceldin was born on Oerth to a poor family of serfs who were heavily faithful, pinning all their woes and rewards on the backs of the gods they worshipped. As Asceldin grew older he quickly displayed an unusual level of intelligence that quickly surpassed most around him. His parents being the pious lot they were spent the meager savings they had to send him to the local temple in hopes of him becoming a Priest and through him recieve blessings from their God on the family. Asceldin was whole-heartedly against the idea, siting all his families troubles as evidence that the gods did not worry over the common mortal. Until he witnessed the first instance of Priestly magic, the High Cleric of his order creating a bountiful feast from nothing but his fervent prayers. For months Asceldin threw himself into the teachings of the high priests hoping to learn to wield the holy powers to his own gain to no avail. For the first time in his life he felt lesser, and resented the clergy and the gods for such an act. One night he secreted himself into the library that held the sacred tomes of his order and stole away with a collection of their most ancient tomes. On the run from a temple to a God he found lacking and from the clerics who refused to share their unwarranted power, Asceldin sought to unlock the secrets of the Gods' magic through the tomes and in doing so he found the only other being who he might have called friend, an elderly wizard who had discovered piety as he advanced in years. The Wizard, named Rintinlan took Aceldin in, under the false pretense put before him by Aceldin. That the boy had been persecuted by an evil Duke of his faraway land, a man who besmirched the name of the gods and balked at the idea of any being more powerful than he. With the help of the Wizard over the coming years Asceldin learned much not of what the gods sought to teach, but of the connection between God and chosen priest. Asceldin used that connection with the help of the magical, yet naive, mind of Rintinlan to learn to siphon off magical energy from the gods into himself. With the taste of divine magics and a new outlook onto the gods as not just uncaring but unworthy sources of incredible power Asceldin set himself to the logical next step of his plan. To steal divinity as a whole. Through a dark ritual on the altar to a God of Betrayal, Asceldin summoned and bound a powerful angel of a goodly God, the God of Rintinlans worship and deceived his old mentor, insisting that he had trapped a powerful demon in the most unholy place, in the hopes that the faithful would strike the killing blow on an agent of their goodly God, the most vital step of the ritual to steal godhood. The deed was done and Rintinlan was soon struck dead in that dark place by his former student thought friend, in that his ultimate betrayal. The final step of the ritual was to strip the most powerful parts of the angel and graft them into yourself. Asceldin removed the eyes, ears, tongue and wings of the poor creature and consumed a mixture of the blood of the angel and Rintintan, a creature born of faith, and one betrayed through it. With that the ritual was complete, Aceldin was no more a mortal, but also not a God. The divine spark was moved into his body, but his dark soul twisted and corrupted the spark, causing it to be a divine and alien entity bound in the prison of Asceldins own body. In this moment of ultimate failure and betrayal when Asceldin felt the divine leach fight and scream to be freed from within, was Asceldin pulled into the mists, and the God of Mercy was born.

Notable Features: Asceldin's body weakens to the point of rupturing when he isn't praised to extreme measure. As such he uses small amounts of his divine power to perform "miracles" to sway the masses into believing him their God and savior. Though no matter what deeds he does, before long the people of his lands turn back to practicality to allow them to survive the dark nights of Ur-Asceldin. Furthering Asceldins belief that he is and never will be worthy of divine favor. This leads him to orchestrate larger and larger miracles, and obstacles to overcome to the awe of his devout. Further wearing thin his ability to hold his body together and the divine leach in check. He has discovered that no worship strengthens his mortal vessel more than bathing in the warm blood of a willingly sacrificed devout follower. Only with each passing day they become a rarer commodity. So he has turned his attention back to his original goal of stealing godhood, though now not from the pantheons of his world but a new set of beings that terrify and intrigue him, The Dark Powers.

Adventure Hooks: -Religious artifacts of terrible power from a time before Asceldin rest scattered throughout his domain. Asceldin himself would have collected them long ago if not for the roving band of divinity-consuming Nabassu that roam his land in packs. They may be the key to his defeat...or Ascendence

-Though most either devote themselves wholey to Asceldin, or pay little care to him, their are rumors of a fortress monastery of devout priests and paladins who actively fight to unseat the God of Mercy. Few have seen the fortress but those who have speak of horribly malformed soilders with featureless faces and wordless screams guarding in, to mention nothing of the blood red rivers that surround the keep. Though no one has ventured within the walls and returned, a name of the order has been whispered, heard in dreams and visions. The Pride of Mutilated Perfection.

 

[jgsugden]

I only use a few of the 'by the book' domains, and then only technically. I can't recall a PC actually stepping foot in one, although they've heard of the Barovia in the land of Shadows.

My Ravenloft Domains are all places where horrific things took place in my campaign world. For my campaign, the horrific thing causes enough horror that when the Shadowfell tries to mirror it, the Shadowfell is corrupted and manifests a 'tumor' that it seals off. The beings in it are not technically real beings, but are instead reflections of the people there at the time of the event. Many of them run on 'Groundhog Day' style repeat loops. Others delve into abstract spirals that take the calamity down further and further decay and destruction. Others develop a hunger for life and seek out ways to lure people in so that it can slowly sap their lifeforce.

There was a Kingdom that fell 1000 years ago due to one bad decision,. The result destroyed the kingdom, caused devastation across the globe (which is 12 times the size of earth on the surface and has a Dyson Sphere like interior Underdark nearly the same size) and cut the Gods off from the Prime Material Plane for a millenia. The being that made that decision instantly understood what they did, and their anguish created a Ravenloft Domain that repeats that day over and over. PCs that enter the Domain can try to change the results, but it does no good in the end as the day repeats anyways. However, the PCs can wander through the domain and learn exactly what intrigue was going on that day, and can then apply that knowledge to their real world current challenges. It is a very deadly environment, though, as the final hour of the day involves a near extinction level event centered on the Ravenloft Domain. If the PCs do not find their way to safety the first day to stay protected through that first loop, they die and the Shadowfell swallows their souls,

There is a small Ravenloft Domain that travels the seas of the Shadowfell. It is a Spelljammer that crashed due to human error, and the crash killed the lover of the Captain. Overcome with anguish, the Captain sails the Shadowfell Sea in search of the lost love, unable to believe they are gone, and obsessed with the idea everyone else is hiding the love.

One of my largest cities has a vacant district. People within it disappear. They are drawn to the Shadowfell and into the Ravenloft Domain created when a child unleashed Devils into their manor home. The Devils killed their siblings and them before their father put the Devils down - but the child dying with the belief that their acts caused the death of their family - and likely the entire city - created a Ravenloft Domain that slowly grows. Within it, there is a 'Childish Horror Movie' filled with a mix of 'Real World' Fiends and the stuff of a Child's Nightmares. One might be assaulted by Chain Devils one moment and then a colored wax drawing of a plant might come to life and try to crush them. Or they may be run over by a stampede of stuffed horses. Or they may find all of their food turn to rotten maggot infested brussel sprouts.

 

[Retreater]

I based a domain on the Nautilus from 20,000 Leagues under the Sea with Captain Nemo as the Dark Lord. It worked very well.

 

[evtrax]

I based a domain on the Nautilus from 20,000 Leagues under the Sea with Captain Nemo as the Dark Lord. It worked very well.

Could you tell us more about this domain?

 

[Retreater]

Could you tell us more about this domain?

I'll try (without my notes handy). I wrote it in the early days of 5e (so before whatever rules for Domain Creation were outlined in Van Richten's).
Nemo (and I didn't call him that) didn't know he was a Dark Lord. In fact, he considered himself a benevolent freedom fighter - only problem was that the Dark Powers kept him in a perpetual loop to struggle and never free the people.
I adapted a good map of the Nautilus (which I called the Lamprey) and ran the Gothic submarine like a haunted house of sorts - where he controlled it. It wasn't exactly steampunk because it was powered by the Dark Powers.
So the Domain itself was the Lamprey and a "bubble" of ocean around it, which were events designed to torment Nemo: the exploration of the sunken lost city (Atlantis in the novel), shark hunting, attacking the "Imperial" fleet (which was a vague nation dreamt up by the Dark Powers).
Nemo himself had some interesting quirks. I ran him as a modified vampire - kind of an oceanic vampire. He had gills (just visible under his high collar), had to sleep in a tank of salt water, and could turn into a shark (instead of a wolf). Just like in the novel, he played the organ (a very Strahd-like thing to do).
Being submerged in the ocean, the party couldn't just "escape" the domain. They could be tethered to the ship (in those Victorian diving suits) and explore underwater ruins or go on a hunting expedition with the Captain.
In the end, the party had to mutiny the ship and pilot it into the Maelstrom to weaken it and the Captain enough to defeat them both.

 

[humble minion]

I never used it, but I was thinking of a domain inspired by early Everest/Himalayan mountaineering. The darklord as an obsessive climber (foreign to the area) who on an early expedition abandoned his comrades to die in order to pursue the glory of reaching the top himself. Now he's in an eternal loop, fanatical about someday reaching the top but cursed never to make it. He sucks others in on his obsession - he'll spin yarns about monsters in the high altitudes that raid villages lower down, talk of glorious achievement, of treasures and knowledge stored in ruined monasteries near the summit, of rumours that if you reach the top the goddess of the mountain will grant you three wishes. He's probably got some sort of charm ability to con people into coming along with him, until he abandons or betrays them in turn. And once a climbing team reaches the higher slopes they start coming across frozen body after body, and some of them are still recognisable as their guide, whose earlier incarnations died on the mountain and stay there still...

 

[gamerprinter]

Well it isn't Ravenloft, but my published Kaidan setting of Japanese Horror (PFRPG) is an empire where all the aristocrats - all daimyo, shogun and senior staff, the imperial court; the rulers of Kaidan are all undead, cursed Japanese ghosts. The island archipelago is surrounded by constant mists, which hides Kaidan, but also "those who aren't welcome by the powers there" sometimes sails through a great fog bank and never actually finding land, which was my official nod to Ravenloft. Beyond that, what makes Kaidan horror isn't the same as Ravenloft. Many of my fans recognize the links to Ravenloft, as it is there...