Ray of Frost, Scorching Burst and Phantom Bolt are Dead

[andarilhor]

How you would ressurect them?

With the new wizard area powers in essentials those 3 powers are too weak mechanically to be pickable anymore.

Stone blood replace ray of frost and Freezing Burst replaces phantom bolt for being a area powers which does the same as the ranged ones. And Both replaces scorching burst by doing some control besides the same damage and area of effect.

But, conceptually, those powers are too good to just throw into the trash. So, some ideas to make those powers insteresting again:

Ray of frost: the target is slowed and cannot shift on a hit OR make the power a blast.

Phantom Bolt: one other enemy provokes AOs from the target, and the target must make all AOs which this second enemy provokes, until the start of your next turn, instead of a simple slide.

Scorchig burst: creates a zone of difficult terrain which lasts until the end of your next turn OR pushes all targets from the burst center (as a effect).

Anyone has some other ideas?

 

[NMcCoy]

Scorching Burst: Area burst 2 within 10.
Ray of Frost: Effect: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Phantom Bolt: You slide the target 3 squares.

 

[LuckyAdrastus]

Neat thread idea!

Minor digression: this is why I wish there was more Errata in 4e. When they released PHB1, they didn't have the best grasp on what makes a good controller, and they wizard at-wills particularly suffered for it. However, these weak at-wills had a lot of the classic names/concepts attached to them (scorching burst, magic missle, ray of frost). I wish instead of needing to make new at-wills to replace them, they could've gone back and edited them to be at the appropriate power level. Cuz' you know, I like good Errata!

They did actually do something like this for magic missile, but the new version wasn't good enough either. At least it is free for some Wizards...

 

[Stalker0]

You could make ray of frost be slow and can't charge, or put a +2 on the attack (since fort is just generallly harder to hit for things you want to slow).

On a side note, there is nothing wrong with scorching burst. Sure its not a pure controllers spell, but was one of the best at wills in the game before the new super at wills. It kills minions good, does solid damage, and can be expanded with feats.

 

[Hof]

Perhaps a more unusual addition to Ray of Frost:

Effect: If an enemy provides cover to the target from this attack make a secondary attack. Make this attack only once if more enemies provide cover.
Secondary Target: The first enemy to provide cover to the primary target.
Secondary Attack: Intelligence vs Fortitude.
Hit: The secondary target is slowed until the end of your next turn.

While this does not remedy the somewhat less desirable action of attacking front-line enemies against their likely highest defense, you can now try to slow one while attacking the rear if you want. Freezing two birds with one ray if you will.

 

[ravenheart]

Scorching Burst: Area burst 2 within 10.
Ray of Frost: Effect: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Phantom Bolt: You slide the target 3 squares.

Area burst 2 is way too generous, and slide 3 is a tad too much. I like the slow on ray of frost being an effect though. Maybe by keeping the hit line as is and adding:

Effect: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn. If the target is already slowed by this power it is instead immobilized until the end of your next turn. If the target is already immobilized by this power it is instead restrained until the end of your next turn.
​

Might make it needlessly complicated, but really emphasizes the powers aspect of single-target control.

On a side note, there is nothing wrong with scorching burst. Sure its not a pure controllers spell, but was one of the best at wills in the game before the new super at wills. It kills minions good, does solid damage, and can be expanded with feats.

I respectfully disagree. Not about how it kills minions or does solid damage, but there really is something wrong with it.
A power is only as good as it is in relation to the other powers of its level. New powers have superseeded Scorching Burst in utility and control, so that the only unique thing about it is the fire damage. Feats can be applied to many different powers, and should therefore not be aided in measuring a powers potency.
The addition of new at-wills that raise the expected damage and control output of powers should therefore require that Scorching Burst gets a well deserved boost. As you said, it WAS one of the best at-will in the game, why can't it be that again? I'm not saying we make it a must have, but I'd rather improve one power than nerf a dozen.

As for ideas how to improve it, here are some:

Make it area or close burst 1, adding verstaility and defensive capabilities. Makes for some wonky interaction with Master's Wand of SB for instance, might require some tweaking.
Another idea is to deal Int mod fire damage on a miss. Or push 1 away from the origin square on a hit.

Perhaps a more unusual addition to Ray of Frost:

Effect: If an enemy provides cover to the target from this attack make a secondary attack. Make this attack only once if more enemies provide cover.
Secondary Target: The first enemy to provide cover to the primary target.
Secondary Attack: Intelligence vs Fortitude.
Hit: The secondary target is slowed until the end of your next turn.

While this does not remedy the somewhat less desirable action of attacking front-line enemies against their likely highest defense, you can now try to slow one while attacking the rear if you want. Freezing two birds with one ray if you will.

This could work, but it sort of steals Arcing Fires thing, and it acts wonky with Master's Wand of RoF (=you ignore cover from enemies when you cast RoF, so are they still providing cover if you ignore it??). It's also a bit clunky, but so was my suggestion so who am I to complain?

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot Phantom Bolt. I'd remove the slide from the hit line and add the following:

Effect: Slide the target 1 square or knock it prone.
​

 

[Psikus]

On a side note, there is nothing wrong with scorching burst. Sure its not a pure controllers spell, but was one of the best at wills in the game before the new super at wills. It kills minions good, does solid damage, and can be expanded with feats.

The problem is that Heroes of the Fallen Lands (HotFL?) brings two wizard powers with the same damage and area as Scorching Burst, plus either slow or slide 1, making it as good as obsolete. The fire damage type is nice, but doesn't justify taking it over the stronger versions.

and slide 3 is a tad too much.

Not really - Thunderwave has been pushing creatures in an area for a zillion squares since day 1, and nothing has broken. I think slide 3 is about right, and could even be improved to slide [Cha modifier] without causing any trouble.

I like the slow on ray of frost being an effect though. Maybe by keeping the hit line as is and adding:

Effect: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn. If the target is already slowed by this power it is instead immobilized until the end of your next turn. If the target is already immobilized by this power it is instead restrained until the end of your next turn.​

I love the idea of a ray of frost with cumulative debuffs, but the 'restrained' line is probably overkill.

As for scorching burst, I have always liked its niche as a straightforward, mindless explosion. So I'd upgrade the damage enough for it to be the best choice for offensive blasters, and call it a day.

So my versions of the powers would look like this:

Phantom Bolt - Hit: 1d8 + Int psychic damage, and you slide the targe 3 squares.
Scorching Burst - Area burst 1; Hit: 1d10 + Int fire damage.
Ray of Frost - Hit: 1d6 + Int cold damage, and the target is slowed and cannot shift until the end of your next turn. If the target is slowed, it is immobilized until the end of your next turn instead.

 

[erf_beto]

As for scorching burst, I have always liked its niche as a straightforward, mindless explosion. So I'd upgrade the damage enough for it to be the best choice for offensive blasters, and call it a day.

Agreed!

So my versions of the powers would look like this:

Phantom Bolt - Hit: 1d8 + Int psychic damage, and you slide the targe 3 squares.
Scorching Burst - Area burst 1; Hit: 1d10 + Int fire damage.
Ray of Frost - Hit: 1d6 + Int cold damage, and the target is slowed and cannot shift until the end of your next turn. If the target is slowed, it is immobilized until the end of your next turn instead.

I like them all. In fact, I wouldn't mind giving SB a 2d6 - but it might be too much, it's just because I like that spell a lot.

 

[boolean]

I like them all. In fact, I wouldn't mind giving SB a 2d6 - but it might be too much, it's just because I like that spell a lot.

How about splitting the difference and making it 2d4? Give the poor unappreciated d4's something to do now that they aren't needed for Magic Missile anymore.

 

[andarilhor]

What do you guys think of that?

Scorching Burst
At-Will * Arcane, Evocation, Fire, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10■s
Attack: Int vs Ref
Hit: 1d8+Int mod fire damage
Miss: Int mod fire damage
21st level: Add 1d8 to both hit and miss damage.

Ray of Frost
At-Will * Arcane, Evocation, Cold, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Attack: Int vs Fort
Hit: 1d4+Int mod cold damage, and the target is imobilized until the end of your next turn.

Phantom Bolt
At-Will * Arcane, Illusion, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action Ranged 10
Attack: Int vs Will
Hit: 1d6+Int mod psychic damage
Effect: You slide the target 1 square