Ray of Stupidity?

[Archade]

Hi all,

One of my players had me take a close look at the spell Ray of Stupidity in the Spell Compendium. It's a 2nd-level wizard spell that does Intelligence damage, and doesn't allow a save.

Unlike Ray of Enfeeblement, it's ability damage, so multiple castings stack. As well, unlike ray of enfeeblement, it says nothing about not being able to reduce the target below Int 1.

Does that mean I'm reading a 2nd-level spell that could take out a CR 15 fiendish tyrannasorous simply by reducing it's Int from 3 to 0 without a save? This doesn't seem right to me, and I'm wondering if this has been noticed/discussed previously.

Thanks!

 

[Felix]

That's what the spell says; you've read it right. I wouldn't allow it in play like that, but that's how it's written.

 

[starwed]

A lot of monsters have very low ability scores, and ability damage tends to interact with this in an unbalanced way.

In the base rules, there are very few ways for PCs to deal ability damage, and most of them are high level. So it doesn't really matter that a T-rex has a low int, or that most oozes have 1 Dex.

And in general, an ability which causes a couple of points of ability damage isn't going to be very powerful, so in supplemental materials it has been allowed to seep into PC options.

But suddenly, these previously formidable creatures have an Achilles heel that wasn't taken into account in their design and balancing. I think the best way around this might be to rework the rules on reducing abilities scores to 0.

Currently, a couple points of Int damage renders the T-Rex helpless. I'd probably rule that there's some sort of chance to resist this, probably a will save of some sort. Maybe DC 20 + ability damage dealt? (And of course, it would be a fortitude save for physical ability damage.) That's just one idea, maybe someone else can provide a better one.

 

[Slobber Monster]

That's pretty out of wack, especially if you compare it to Feeblemind - a 5th level spell which sets Int and Cha to 1. Any spell that lowers intelligence has to be carefully balanced by its potential to instantly turn animals into vegetables. It either needs a short duration and repeated saves like Hold Person, or its level needs to be bumped up (and maybe a save added) to put it in line with other save-or-die effects like Phantasmal Killer or Flesh to Stone. You might be able to keep it at 2nd level by making it non-stackable and preventing it from lowering a score below 1.

 

[mikebr99]

Does that mean I'm reading a 2nd-level spell that could take out a CR 15 fiendish tyrannasorous simply by reducing it's Int from 3 to 0 without a save? This doesn't seem right to me, and I'm wondering if this has been noticed/discussed previously.

Thanks!

Doesn't seem right to me either... in fact something similar just happened at my table.

A Six-headed Hydra pops out of a swamp and charges the party (4th level)... and the Sorcerer shoots the thing with his ray of Stupidity... touch AC of 9... Int of 2... it's sad really... and awfully anti-climatic.

I am debating adding... Will negates to the spell. thoughts?

Mike

 

[starwed]

I am debating adding... Will negates to the spell. thoughts?

I think it's better to alter how the "ability score=0" mechanic works than going around altering all the spells/abilities which deal ability damage. Most of them are balanced fine, except when they result in an instant kill. Ray of Stupidity, for instance, is probably intended to take down wizards a few notches. Making it Will negates pretty much nerfs that use of it.

So add a chance to resist the helpless condition, rather than tagging something on to the spell itself.

 

[mikebr99]

I think it's better to alter how the "ability score=0" mechanic works than going around altering all the spells/abilities which deal ability damage. Most of them are balanced fine, except when they result in an instant kill. Ray of Stupidity, for instance, is probably intended to take down wizards a few notches. Making it Will negates pretty much nerfs that use of it.

So add a chance to resist the helpless condition, rather than tagging something on to the spell itself.

Or limiting it to an INT of 1... like ray of enfeeblement (ranged touch attack to STR, no save) or Feeblemind (no attack required to INT & CHR, will negates) are?

Mike

 

[MarkB]

I'd consider simply switching it to deal Wisdom damage. I don't think there are any whole classes of creatures around that have universally pitiful Wisdom scores.

 

[pallandrome]

Me, I like alternative solutions to things like this. Give the spell a chance to drive the creature into a mindless rage when it hits 0 Int.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Why not just use the same mechanics as for ray of enfeeblement? Seems like a pretty obvious solution to me.