D&D 4E Razorvine 4e

[darkInertia]

Razorvine​

Level 1 Obstacle

Hazard
​

XP 100

Dark heart-shaped leaves grow in dense clumps concealing iron-hard ridges on the plant’s stem. A razorvine patch can reach sizes up to 20’ feet tall and wide, covering walls or small buildings entirely in a few days.

Hazard: Eight patchs of razorvine cover vertical surfaces in the area. Each patch fills a 5 foot by 5 foot area. The surface a patch of razorvine grows on is considered difficult terrain. Razorvine only grows on vertical surfaces, so it typically does not occupy any squares but is a feature of the surface it grows on.

Perception
No check is necessary to notice the plant.
Additional Skills: Nature or Streetwise
· DC 15: The character identifies the plant as razorvine.

Trigger
When a creature moves through razorvine, reaches into it, or climbs on a surface it covers; or a creature adjacent to a patch of razorvine attacks it; or a creature falls into it or is forced into it through a push, pull, or slide, the razorvine attacks. It also attacks when a creature restrained by it attempts to free himself.

Attack
Opportunity Action Melee
Target: Creature in the razorvine
Attack: +6 vs. AC
Hit: 1d6+2 damage.
Effect: If the creature fell into or was forced into a patch through a push, pull, or slide, the creature is restrained.

Countermeasures
· A character can attack a patch of razorvine (AC 15, other defenses 10; hp 5; resist 5 fire). Once a patch is destroyed, it cannot attack and is no longer difficult terrain.
· Restrained characters can use Acrobatics or Athletics (DC 15) to free themselves.

Comments, balance thoughts, etc.?
​

 

[Rechan]

I can't help but think that anyone who is restrained in the razorvine ought to be subject to some more damage. Because, after all, it's like being caught in barb wire; you must be either very precise, or you're going to cut yourself during the struggle.

So I'd say unless they beat the Escape check by 4, they receive 3 damage (including if they fail).

 

[redrover]

Nice idea.

I have a few suggestions for consideration, mostly based around player decisions and consequences:

1. Consider making razorvine a scalable hazard, with Heroic, Paragon, and Epic versions (Lesser, Normal, Dire?).

2. Consider a slight concept change: The razorvine doesn't actually attack; rather, you hurt yourself when you choose to interact with it.

(In other words, taking damage other than the initial or forced damage becomes a player choice, giving players some control over how much this obstacle actually hurts them.)

The following suggestions are pegged at Paragon tier.

3. Perhaps cautious physical investigation of a razorvine area (no entry or successful identifying skill check) might deal 5 points of damage to the investigator.

4. The Restrained result works well for creatures in a razorvine square.

5. With two exceptions, any action taken by a creature in a razorvine square (including voluntary or forced entry) deals it 2d6 + 5 damage, which occurs at the completion of the action. The first minor action in a turn while in a razorvine square deals no damage. An escape attempt is an end-of-turn saving throw (see below).

(The idea here is the player is informed before taking actions that doing so will deal damage, except for the first minor.

Taking damage last allows a player to drop himself if the possible payoff is worth it; it guarantees a desperation action always has a chance.

Allowing one minor action for no damage assumes extreme care and slow execution.)

6. If you take no actions while in a razorvine square, you take no damage.

7. You can escape razorvine with a saving throw at the end of your turn. If successful, you shift one square and take no damage. If you stop in a razorvine area, the escape is considered voluntary movement into razorvine and you do take damage.

8. An escape fails if your attempt does not move you out of your square. A failed escape attempt crits you.

(Once the players figure this out, the cost of taking action is easy to calculate, giving the players control of their options.)

9. A square of razorvine can be attacked without harming a creature in the area (AC 20, other defenses 15; hp 55; immune to physical missiles and blunt weapons -- clubs, maces, hammers and the like, psychic, and thunder damage). If the razorvine is the only cause of rough terrain in a square, killing it makes the square clear terrain.

(I'm not too crazy about fire resistance here, I'd rather leave that as a DM special for an Elite version.)

10. Consider letting Huge and larger creatures take only half damage.

 

[darkInertia]

1. Consider making razorvine a scalable hazard, with Heroic, Paragon, and Epic versions (Lesser, Normal, Dire?).

This could be a possibility, but there are other more deadly hazards in planescape that could fill the higher tiers. The restrained condition is tied to the effect and not the hit for the razorvine's attack, so that makes it dangerous even at higher levels (see the restrained condition if you have doubts).

I'll worry about increasing the level of the razorvine when the PCs get to a higher tier.

2. Consider a slight concept change: The razorvine doesn't actually attack; rather, you hurt yourself when you choose to interact with it.

(In other words, taking damage other than the initial or forced damage becomes a player choice, giving players some control over how much this obstacle actually hurts them.)

Reread the trigger. This is already the case. It will probably affect characters primarily through forced movement, or if a PC really needs to climb that wall covered with razorvine.

5. through 9, 10

I think adding all of these ideas would create too much complexity. I based my write up using existing hazards and tried to keep it simple and quick to adjudicate.

The one thing that I was worried about is the idea that a patch razorvine of doesn't actually take up a square - owing to its nature as a ivy/creeper, I wanted to keep it on vertical surfaces for the most part (that's why I use the term patch instead of square). I also wanted to keep an individual patch benign enough so that I could put in a lot of of it into an encounter without jacking up the XP of the encounter too much.

Since it's on a vertical surface, it doesn't affect a player unless they choose to 1) climb the wall, 2) need to search through a patch of razorvine, 3) fall into a patch, or 4) are forced into a patch through a push, pull or slide.

How I intend to play out this sort of forced movement:

W . .
W . .
R m f
W . .
W . .

W - wall/building
R - razorvine covered wall
m - monster
f - fighter

The monster is adjacent to the wall that has razorvine on it. The fighter, on his turn, could attempt to push the monster into the razorvine using a bull rush or tide of iron power (pushing him 1 square in either case, iirc). If he succeeds, the razorvine will attack. In addition, whether the razorvine "hits" or not, the monster is restrained - trapped in the razorvine.

Case 2

W . . .     W . . .
W . . .     W . . .
R . m f  => R m f .
W . . .     W . . .
W . . .     W . . .

Same deal, the fighter pushes the monster 1 square. But in this case, the monster isn't attacked (or restrained) by the razorvine, since the fighter didn't push the monster into the wall square.

I realize that this mechanic is new and different to 4e - there isn't really a concept of vertical space rules explicitly defined, but I think the intension is intuitive enough along with my above description of the trigger for the hazard.

Please let me know if this makes sense, or if i need to rewrite it to make it more clear.

(I'm not too crazy about fire resistance here, I'd rather leave that as a DM special for an Elite version.)

While the razorvine has pretty good AC for its level and the resist fire (which is crunch and flavor from 2nd edition), it only has 5 hp, so it's not particularly hardy.

Thanks for looking!

 

[redrover]

Thanks very much for taking the time to write a detailed reply. Your post cleared up a number of things for me.

Scalable: Fair enough. Of course restraint is an effect, I did catch that. Can’t wait to see your treatment of higher level hazards, too.

(Upper tier razorvine variations might be different species, flagged by clues that there’s a difference; for example, pale green veining at Heroic, blue veining at Paragon, red veining at Epic.)

(I did not mean to suggest an identical description at all tiers. That seems unfair to me, and would seem a really bad practice in general when it comes to scaling.)


Trigger: OK. On rereading, I suggest you take out all references to horizontal ground cover.

The confusing bits are flagged in blue, suggested general deletions are flagged in red, and suggested additions are flagged in purple.

When a creature moves over, reaches into razorvine, or climbs on a surface razorvine [it]covers, or a creature attacks a patch of razorvine, or a creaturefalls into or is forced into a patch of razorvine[one] through a push, pull, or slide, the razorvine attacks. It also attacks when a creaturesrestrained by razorvine[it restrains] attempts to free themselves [itself]..


Complexity: You are probably right. Nailing down exact processes tends to take space and look complex. Most of my suggestions were based on a sort of “barbed wire” ground cover. I suggest you go with your gut on this one.


Creeper: I must say your subtle distinction between “patch” and “square” to indicate a vertical surface hazard was completely lost on me. If you intend a vertical surface hazard, you might state this more plainly in the description. Some of us are a little slow on the uptake at times.

“Since it's on a vertical surface, it doesn't affect a player unless they choose to 1) climb the wall, 2) need to search through a patch of razorvine, 3) fall into a patch, or 4) are forced into a patch through a push, pull, or slide.”

Wow. If hazards had the equivalent of a TACTICS section, I’d put this in there almost verbatim. I also appreciated the diagrams.


Fire Resistance: I’m always in favor of keeping crunch and flavor from earlier editions. My bad for not going back and checking out the original.

Once again, good adaptation.

 

[darkInertia]

I updated the trigger and hazard description. Let me know if it's clearer now.

 

[redrover]

Looks OK to me.