D&D 5E RE: Tarasque vs. 5th lv. Wizard scenario - how does Wizard know to use Acid Splash?!?

[Elderbrain]

RE: Tarasque vs. 5th lv. Wizard scenario - how does Wizard know to use Acid Splash?!?

It occurred to me the other day that the scenario where the low-level Wizard solos the Tarasque relies on illegal Player knowledge (that the Tarasque isn't immune to acid damage) being used by the PC in-game. How exactly would said 5th - level Wizard know to use acid? It's not like the characteristics of such a unique, rarely - encountered beast would be common knowledge! And low-level divination spells shouldn't yield such info, either. The whole thing relies on the Player of said Wizard cheating and using information his PC couldn't know. Also, the trick assumes that the Tarasque has average hit points as listed in the MM, when actually the DM could choose to roll for h.p. and potentially end up with h.p. topping 900, legitimately... Which means that Fly spell may wear off before the Tarasque runs out of h.p.

Anybody care to comment/refute me?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It occurred to me the other day that the scenario where the low-level Wizard solos the Tarasque relies on illegal Player knowledge (that the Tarasque isn't immune to acid damage) being used by the PC in-game. How exactly would said 5th - level Wizard know to use acid? It's not like the characteristics of such a unique, rarely - encountered beast would be common knowledge! And low-level divination spells shouldn't yield such info, either. The whole thing relies on the Player of said Wizard cheating and using information his PC couldn't know. Also, the trick assumes that the Tarasque has average hit points as listed in the MM, when actually the DM could choose to roll for h.p. and potentially end up with h.p. topping 900, legitimately... Which means that Fly spell may wear off before the Tarasque runs out of h.p.

Anybody care to comment/refute me?

I am going to start with I am not a fan or a believer in the white room scenario, however I will defend it here with half a heart just to be fair to those that do belive it.

You don't metagame anything... You start with fly then your biggest spell, on down till your stuck with cantrips... that is just the cantrip that through trial and error you will find works best... then it is just rinse repete.

the idea of the test was (at least as I understand it) that you always at any level use big guns first, but even a lowly 5th level cantrip will win over time...

 

[Acr0ssTh3P0nd]

See, people who argue that the wizard could beat the Tarrasque using Fly and Acid Splash are assuming that the DM is going to run the Tarrasque using exactly what's on the stat block, and no more.

Then the Tarrasque throws a building at them. +19 to hit, 20d6 + 10 bludgeoning damage (basically getting hit with the meteor part of a meteor swarm).

 

[Kobold Stew]

...or it just walks/digs away, as i would from a mosquito.

 

[Paraxis]

I think the whole point of this scenario is to prove they didn't do a very good job building the monsters in this edition. A high level monster should be able to deal with flying enemeis with abilities in his stat block.

Jump ability, sonic scream, throw debris ability, calls down Gamera, pretty much anything at all to deal with a ranged attacker.

It is almost like they didn't learn anything from the first few decades of gaming.

 

[Acr0ssTh3P0nd]

Like I said, Paraxis, the DM just has the Tarrasque throw a building/boulder/large object within reach. Let's see that wizard cast Acid Splash when he's crushed under a bloody church spire.

 

[PnPgamer]

To be fair, wizard can try again later when he realizes his fly is starting to run out, and flee. Eventually he will notice that acid is the way to go, after many retries.

 

[Sage Genesis]

Like I said, Paraxis, the DM just has the Tarrasque throw a building/boulder/large object within reach. Let's see that wizard cast Acid Splash when he's crushed under a bloody church spire.

Even assuming that the tarrasque can use improvised weapons, such things have a maximum range of 60 feet. That is the same as Acid Splash but the wizard can cut up movement to hover at 75', dip down, throw some acid, and then rise back up to 75'. It would only deal 1d4+10 damage on a hit anyway, not as if the wizard can't take one of those and adjust tactics accordingly.


All of the above is by the rules. The most obvious counterpoint to that is to make a houserule and give the tarrasque the ability to do things differently. And that is precisely the problem: by going beyond the rules it's an implicit admission that the rules themselves are inadequate to handle the situation. The 5th level wizard scenario is not a genuine proposal to kill the tarrasque that way, it's an illustration that the rules are flawed. (Given that the 4e tarrasque has a special aura specifically to deal with flying creatures makes the situation all the more bizarre, since there's no way the devs don't know about this classic approach to dealing with this monster.)

 

[delericho]

I think the whole point of this scenario is to prove they didn't do a very good job building the monsters in this edition.

Sounds about right - or at least sounds about right in the case of this monster.

Jump ability, sonic scream, throw debris ability, calls down Gamera, pretty much anything at all to deal with a ranged attacker.

Yep.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Tiamat is a pretty reasonable CR 30 monster, though. The only thing she's really missing is teleportation/spellcasting.