Real difference between hit-points and vitality-points

[Galethorn]

That certainly would be a good use for the Action Point system that's also in UA...add 'not be affected by a critical' as one of the uses, then you're sure to only kill off players with multiple criticals in a short period (which would kill them in the HP system anyway) and/or them stupidly wasting their APs. I think that would solve the lethality...now all that would need solving is how much lower a creature's CR would be if they were non-heroic (i.e. a level 5 guardsman) and therefore didn't have any VP...

 

[Epametheus]

Wouldn't wound points mean that a dragon would die after like 2 crits, since it'd still have its hundreds of VP but only 30 or so WP?

Also, any assassin that is trying to coup de grace with a dagger is almost certainly adding sneak damage to the hit. DC 10 + 2d4+4 doesn't sound terribly imposing, but a DC of 10 + 2d4+4 + 3d6 or more damage certainly is. If your fighters can pass DC 26 or more fort saves with impunity, then start using much better assassins.

Or just use a light pick. 4d4+8 + sneak, or whatever.

Being a L10 hero that's in nearly as much danger of being killed by 1 HD mooks as a L1 neophyte sounds incredibly pointless. I guess it depends on how often the DM either gets lucky or fudges his rolls to avoid instantly killing the frontliners.

 

[Ranger REG]

Needless to say, a lot of work that should have been done by the game designers to make it convenient (i.e., user-friendly) for us gamers to incorporate these variant rules into our D&D game.

 

[Pax]

UA is a toolbox for DM's to use to build a different-from-the-five-before-this campaign. It's not the sort of "this can be dropped into your existing campaign as-is without any fuss" product that other sourcebooks are.

Some of it can be dropped in as-is (Racial Paragons, for example). Most of it, however, requires the GM to really think about what s/he is doing, before they're put into a campaign.

 

[billd91]

The VP/WP idea works really well for more deadly or gritty "low" fantasy types of games where combat can be quite suddenly lethal. Think of the Runequest game, Thieve's World books, and other similar sources. It's bad for the high fantasy styles like Conan and John Carter stories.
Depends on the flavor you want to have.

 

[Ranger REG]

Wouldn't wound points mean that a dragon would die after like 2 crits, since it'd still have its hundreds of VP but only 30 or so WP?

Their size may contribute to a multiplier value you apply toward the dragon's Con score to get a much larger WP.

I also recommend you use "armor as DR" rules with the VP/WP rules, especially with regards to natural armor. That should give dragon and powerful creatures some leverage.

 

[jessemock]

VP/WP isn't more realistic, just more random. Taking care doesn't matter (except for avoiding fights completely), as it's just luck as to whether a hit does VP or WP.Geoff.

What you're saying merely reveals that critical hits have never really been critical hits, but rather lucky hits: despite the fact that a crit is meant to represent a hit to a vital area it in no respect simulates this. A stab to the lung is equivalent to two stabs to the thigh.

The wound point mechanic brings crits slightly more into line with their own definition. Now, a blow to the vitals has an effect different from a blow to a non-vital area. Where's the extra random?

The 'slitting throats' idea is stupid, as the players would do it to their enemies, but cry 'unfair' if the DM did it to them.

It would be more accurate for you to say here that players are stupid for this reason.

 

[mkletch]

Disappointed with UA VP/WP

I was really looking forward to UA for the specific topic of VP/WP systems. And I was not impressed. There are so many issues with converting a D&D-like magic system to use a gritty wound system, and I looked for some sort of solution.

I'm currently working on my own fix, which will use armor as DR, and also a system to work on multiple damage dice events (spells, sneak attack, falling). mulit-dice damage spells and sneak attacks do 1 point per die when affecting wound points. The threshold between the two is a bit sticky, but I have a couple ideas on that point that need to be tested. Big static bonuses (magic weapon with high strength and weapon specialization) get converted into more dice, and many dice of the same type get converted into a few dice of a larger type. Finally, the criticals in 3.x make sense. I interpreted the SWRCRB system to be "reduce the multiplier by 1", rather than "no expanded crit ranges". So a club is 20/x1, a sword is 19-20/x1, a rapier is 18-20/x1, an axe is 20/x2 and a pick is 20/x3. The smaller die type and the elimination of the big static bonuses helps alot.

Just some thoughts.

-Fletch!

 

[Ranger REG]

I believe the consensus regarding the "big book of variant rules" is that the designers of that book didn't go far enough to provide a seamless "plug-n-play" interface with the core ruleset. I was deeply concerned they didn't use the "newbie-level" method of playtesting the mechanics, instead they believe that Unearthed Arcana is meant for "advanced users only."

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

We're looking forward to using VP/WP and Armor as DR in my group. A couple of us are old Dragonquest players, which was the first RPG I saw that did this (they called it Fatigue/Endurance).

I've found that it makes combat a lot more exciting, encourages the players to think a little more about what they do and to explore alternatives to fighting their way out of everything. It makes feats and tactics the decrease your chances of getting hit (like Expertise) a lot more attractive, even for tanks.

As both a DM and a player, I like the fact that every time the enemy takes a swing, it could be the big one.