Real World Alchemist Class - Forked from: History, Mythology, Art and RPG's

[Ugulu the Barbarian]

Forked from History, Mythology, Art and RPG's ...

So, I was thinking about how to create a more historically accurate Alchemist class, and I've hit a snag. The potions that they can create, while useful, aren't really designed for something that our typical adventuring PC would do, or be able to do at the least. This is because the Alchemist would need a lab, new ingredients, etc. Im reluctant to make this an NPC class ... Anybody have any suggestions for this? Im also thinking because of this class, Alchemy wouldn't be a skill, in case anybody was wondering.

Yeah... I'm not sure about that. I think alchemists could be very powerful. If for example, you handled acids realistically for example. Al Jebir, 'The Alchemist' and Zakariya al-Razi discovered Nitric, Hydrochloric and Sulfuric acid in the 9th Century AD, and the distilation of alcohol and kerosine.

Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These chemicals were known and perfected as 'aqua regia' and 'aqua fortis' etc. during the Middle Ages in Italy when his work (and that of other Arab and Persian alchemists) was discovered. In 'real-life' acid is not only a very formidable weapon, but it can be used for other very useful things like damaging locks, destroying various things.

Distilled Spirits / Alcohol is another extremely useful substance which, if handled realistically, could be of immense value. I don't have to tell you how dangerous kerosine can be in the wrong hands.

Gunpowder was another valuable substance "invented" by medieval Alchemists (though it was already known in China), Roger Bacon published the formula in his 'Opus Magus' in the 1267 AD. He also outlines the uses of lenses, which again, I probably don't have to explain the tactical value of magnifying glasses, spy glasses etc. to an adventurer.

Opus Majus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drugs, can be very potent. Opium, hallucinogenics, and medicine all have their various uses. A dragon which ate a sheep say, that was infused with opium, would probably be sleeping for a long time. I don't even want to think about a Dragon which has been dosed with cylocibin cubensis or ergot (essentially LSD) or belladonna.

And that is just if you use the realistic. You don't have to have your alchemist stick to the real world. Surviving alchemical documents include formulae for everything from summoning scorpions to raising the dead to creating artificial life. The alchemical science of 'Takwin', which the Arab alchemists were obsessed with, dealt all to do with the creation of artificial lives:

"Jābir's alchemical investigations ostensibly revolved around the ultimate goal of takwin — the artificial creation of life. The Book of Stones includes several recipes for creating creatures such as scorpions, snakes, and even humans in a laboratory environment, which are subject to the control of their creator. What Jābir meant by these recipes is unknown."

JÄbir ibn HayyÄn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Takwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most famous case of this in Europe was the Marahval of Prague in the Renaissance,

Judah Loew ben Bezalel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Golem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't matter if these things actually existed or not, but people then actually believed them and the stories are much more elaborate and rich than anything anybody comes up with in gaming or RPG books.

And this is just scratching the surface. The European alchemists of the Renaissance got into some really weird , and this went on for centuries. Sir Issac Newton carried out a magical war against one of his rivals. I don't have time to get into all of it here but it's far out stuff.

Anyway the bottom line is, I think there is plenty of room for a really cool alchemist class, I'd like to make one for the codex though I'm swamped with other stuff. I'm probably going to include sort of a small prototype of one in my new canned adventure I'm working on right now.

You can 'skip ahead to the good parts' the same way you 'skip ahead' with Wizards when they are studying spells and etc., but I don't even think that is necessary. All this stuff is plenty interesting if you dig deep enough.

G.

I thank you for the advice. The thing about Alchemists doing magical stuff is that the good ones (as I perceive it) realized that magic wasn't real, and so science became the answer. In a realistic/historic D&D game, this could go 1 of 2 ways as I see it. The 1st is that yes, they could at 20th level create a Golem in a world with some magic. While the 2nd is they create things that seem magical to the eye. I want to try an run a low magic E6 game, and so far, I have some idea as to the "potions" that Alchemists could create.

aqua regia (highly corrosive/fast), potash (cleansing agent), kerosene (lubricant/lightable), tar (cure diseases/sticky), aetherolea (calming), acetic acid (corrosive), gunpowder (duh), dissolved talc (fire proof cream), liquid fire (weapon), ethanol (distilled alcohol) (causes vomiting), silly putty (IDK, but it could be made (in theory)), opium (healing/sleeping agent), ergot (temporary insanity), rusting agent, water proofing agent, glow in the dark agent.

OK ... So, this is a thread about building a more realistic Alchemist class. I want to use it for E6, but I guess I'll build it to/through level 20 ... I am very new at this, so please critique thoroughly, but please, dont be a jerk about it.

AMO, it's late, so Im not going to be posting any work right now, but expect progress coming soon ... Sorry about the length

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Don't worry, this is a good start...

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Definitely intrigued!
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with....

 

[Ugulu the Barbarian]

OK ... So, doing some more digging. Please remember, Im new at this sort of thing, and I thnk I may be geting ahead of myself ...

The ultimate goal of many Alchemist was to create an Elixir of Life, called Pancea. Pancea would, supposedly, cure any disease and prolong life indefinitely. Though, from what I can find about it, if you get stabbed repeatedly, you would still die.

Another was the Philosopher's Stone. Sometimes this was tied in with Pancea. Contrary to what J.K. Rowling and the Harry Potter series, the Philosopher's Stone wasnt for immortality (or, wasn't necessarily). The Philosipher's Stone was for the transmutation of Lead and similar substances into Gold. Another core belief of Alchemists.

Their is also THE Golem which comes from Jewish ... Stories (for lack of a better word, not trying to offend anyone ... ).The Golem was a humanoid being made from mud that was brought to life by writing "specific series of letters on parchment and placing the paper in a golem's mouth."

Im thinking these three things could be the final creations of the Alchemist once achieving 20th level ... But not all 3. So Im a bit confused as how to Alchemist should advance.

And since so far, this thread has been solely speculation, here is the advancement of the Alchemist's saves and BAB ...

EDIT: Uhh ... How do I post a table?

 

[Tonguez]

OK ... So, doing some more digging. Please remember, Im new at this sort of thing, and I thnk I may be geting ahead of myself ...

The ultimate goal of many Alchemist was to create an Elixir of Life, called Pancea. Pancea would, supposedly, cure any disease and prolong life indefinitely. Though, from what I can find about it, if you get stabbed repeatedly, you would still die.

Yes the Panacea was the ultimate cure all and could prolong life. However following Eastern (Daoist Alchemy) Immortality also required an internal transformation of energies

Another was the Philosopher's Stone. Sometimes this was tied in with Pancea. Contrary to what J.K. Rowling and the Harry Potter series, the Philosopher's Stone wasnt for immortality (or, wasn't necessarily). The Philosipher's Stone was for the transmutation of Lead and similar substances into Gold. Another core belief of Alchemists.

Actually not transmutation of lead into gold, that was a by-product and metaphor. The purpose of the Philosophers Stone was purification and 'perfection' of any substance so that its pure aether form was released from mundane matter. It may have been an early attempt at a matter-energy transfer

Their is also THE Golem which comes from Jewish ... Stories (for lack of a better word, not trying to offend anyone ... ).The Golem was a humanoid being made from mud that was brought to life by writing "specific series of letters on parchment and placing the paper in a golem's mouth."

The Golem was infact considered a lesser impure creation (it was mud and mindless) True alchemist following attempted to create Hommonculus which was intelligent enough to be given instructions and 'think'

anthroparion were similar to hommonculus but imbued with a 'spirit' and could also have animal as well has human form

Im thinking these three things could be the final creations of the Alchemist once achieving 20th level ... But not all 3. So Im a bit confused as how to Alchemist should advance.

The Arcanum Experiment was the final transformation of ALchemy and was a transformation of self from mundane flesh to an immotal spiritual form - that might be an option (ie achieving godhood)

Also don't forget the lesser elixris like the Universal Solvent (and the problem of how do you contain the universal solvent?)

 

[Umbran]

Their is also THE Golem which comes from Jewish ... Stories (for lack of a better word, not trying to offend anyone ... ).The Golem was a humanoid being made from mud that was brought to life by writing "specific series of letters on parchment and placing the paper in a golem's mouth."

Traditionally, the Golem was not an alchemical construct. It is more an expression of kabbalah, and the mystical power of words in that portion of the faith. More in the line of true names, rune magic than alchemy. In some versions, the thing is activated by writing the word for truth on the thing's forehead, and deactivated by erasing one of the letters, transforming the word to a word for death.

Not that you can't have your alchemists make these things - just pointing it out in case you have a player who knows the traditions and asks why you think it fits.

 

[Ugulu the Barbarian]

Yes the Panacea was the ultimate cure all and could prolong life. However following Eastern (Daoist Alchemy) Immortality also required an internal transformation of energies

I think I'll be sticking to a more middle-eastern (maybe a little western) approach to Alchemy.

Actually not transmutation of lead into gold, that was a by-product and metaphor. The purpose of the Philosophers Stone was purification and 'perfection' of any substance so that its pure aether form was released from mundane matter. It may have been an early attempt at a matter-energy transfer

Yeah, I got the whole perfection of self thing to, but I was thinking that might be a bit ridiculous

The Golem was infact considered a lesser impure creation (it was mud and mindless) True alchemist following attempted to create Hommonculus which was intelligent enough to be given instructions and 'think'

anthroparion were similar to hommonculus but imbued with a 'spirit' and could also have animal as well has human form

Hmm ... I need some sort of compromise then ...

Also don't forget the lesser elixris like the Universal Solvent (and the problem of how do you contain the universal solvent?)

You mean Alkahest? Not sure how I could fit that into a D&D game ...

ALSO, HOW DO YOU POST A TABLE WITHOUT REALLY MESSING UP THE FORMATTING?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Table.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Actually, I'd like to know as well.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

So far as I know, HTML tables aren't possible. At least the little "table" button in the editor doesn't work! I think most people just make a table as formatted with spaces (as in plain text document), and put it between [code][/code] tags like this:

[B][U]
col 1    col 2            col 3   col 4
[/U][/B]
item     thing            object   aaa
blah     blah             blah     bbb
yadda    yadda             -        -
woot      ding             -        -

The vbulletin code for this looks like

[PLAIN][code]
[B][U]
col 1    col 2            col 3   col 4
[/U][/B]
item     thing            object   aaa
blah     blah             blah     bbb
yadda    yadda             -        -
woot      ding             -        -

[/PLAIN][/code]In this table, the gap between col2 and col3 is intentional to show that it does preserve spaces, though you might not see that in the editor (yeah you have to count them ). The bold and underline tags don't have to be on separate lines as shown, I just did that for clarity; note that those line returns are shown in the table as well..

Imho, it's easiest to format the table in your own plaintext editor, then cut'n'paste it into the post editor and slap the [code][/code] tags around it. Be prepared to deal with a horizontal scrollbar in your post, if you make wide tables!

It's not perfect and takes a fair bit of experimentation, but it does the trick.

 

[Ugulu the Barbarian]

Alchemist Stats ... Now comes the really hard stuff ...

[U][B]Level   BAB    Fort    Ref   Will
[/B][/U]1              +0           +2           +0           +1
2              +1           +3           +0           +1
3              +1           +3           +1           +1
4              +2           +4           +1           +2
5              +2           +4           +1           +2
6              +3           +5           +2           +2
7              +3           +5           +2           +3
8              +4           +6           +2           +3
9              +4           +6           +3           +3
10            +5           +7           +3           +4
11            +5           +7           +3           +4
12            +6/+1     +8            +4           +4
13            +6/+1     +8            +4           +5
14            +7/+2     +9            +4           +5
15            +7/+2     +9            +5           +5
16            +8/+3     +10          +5           +6
17            +8/+3     +10          +5           +6
18            +9/+4     +11          +6           +6
19            +9/+4     +11          +6           +7
20            +10/+5   +12          +6           +7