Real world geology: Greyhawk

[RFisher]

It's the lake of unknown depths. Water isn't flowing out of it at all. Water is flowing out of the ocean into it!

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The problem is not so much that there is two outflows, it is that one of the outflows cuts through a thousand-foot-high gorge (according to the description of the Selintan gorge) while the other flows through wide plain (the Nesser).

There is no sensible reason for the Selintan gorge to have ever been cut by natural processes, even a glacial age.

The only explanation plausible (and doesn't that sound strange when talking about a fantasy setting) is that some ancient power carved it out for convenience with epic magic. Not unplausible seeing that the Flanaess is almost pock-marked with such things. The Burning Cliffs, Rift Canyon, Bright Desert, the tunnel under the Crystalmists, Isles of Woe, various Ur-Flan remnants.

 

[adwyn]

Not all gorges and valleys are the result of erosion. Some are the consequence of (to keep it simple) unequal uplift or subsidence.

Given that it's Greyhawk, it could also be the result of a collapsed underground civilization.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

The Hepmona Suel blasted the Selintan gorge to discourage an Oerid tribe that was hot on their heels.

 

[pawsplay]

Has anyone other than me found it strange that in the Greyhawk setting there are 2 separate rivers that empty from the Nyr Dyv lake into the Woolly Bay?

Not really. It's unlikely, but both the Nile and the Missisippi have done similar things in the past, dividing and forming lakes. They might also simply be at very similar elevations... in that case, one or the other might be flowing at any point in time, and both when the rain is heavy.

 

[Menexenus]

I really like this one, Prince of Happiness. I may just steal it! Thanks.

The Hepmona Suel blasted the Selintan gorge to discourage an Oerid tribe that was hot on their heels.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I really like this one, Prince of Happiness. I may just steal it! Thanks.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! Thanks!

 

[Menexenus]

Thanks also to Maldin, whose prolific devotion to (and expansion of) Greyhawk canon is widely admired and greatly appreciated. I discovered Maldin's Greyhawk website (linked below) back in 1998 and have always found it to be an incredibly useful resource. Thanks for all you do, and keep up the good work!

So... the quick answer? Its an impossible geographic situation. Ok. Gary Gygax was not a geologist or geographer, and I'm not going to hold it against him. Can we try to explain it? You betcha!! Its magic! Ok. I'm not being fair, especially after the post I just made over in the "Poll: Fantasy world maps and real world geology" thread! But the two outflows of the Nyr Dyv certainly is an example of a situation that merits this kind of attention, so I actually did come up with an explanation using the dimensional distortions that sank the Isles of Woe. Check out the "Addendum: The Geography of a Cataclysm" section at the bottom of my The Isles of Woe webpage for a more detailed explanation that you may or may not find believable.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com

 

[Emirikol]

The Artonsamay river that drains into the lake is a massive river for one..but I think it's just a fluke in design.

Just don't let anyone tell you that it's salt water..like I've seen in some poorly edited LG scenarios

jh

Quasqueton's poll/thread about real world geology reminded me of a question that has been smo(u)ldering in the back of my mind for many years now. I didn't want to hijack his thread, but I do want to get an answer to my question at long last.

Has anyone other than me found it strange that in the Greyhawk setting there are 2 separate rivers that empty from the Nyr Dyv lake into the Woolly Bay? The two rivers in question are the Selintan (which passes by the City of Greyhawk) and the Nesser (running through the Celadon Forest, forming the border between the Duchy of Urnst and Nyrond). Here's the question: Isn't this situation (2 entirely separate rivers running from the same lake to the ocean) geologically impossible? Can someone with some real geological knowledge answer this question for me?

Assuming that it is impossible (or virtually so), how should it be explained in the Greyhawk setting? Should it just be chalked up to some hand-wavy magical effect? I'm curious if anyone is aware of any quasi-official explanation for this geological oddity.

Please help me put this long-burning question to rest once and for all! Thanks.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Just don't let anyone tell you that it's salt water..like I've seen in some poorly edited LG scenarios

Or has tides or has sharks. Or deep keel ships sailing up the rivers (that's why the Rhennee are on barges not caravels!) Yeah, editing.