Realistic d20 Modern

[Dan Stack]

I've been giving some thought to a Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green style campaign but I find myself liking the d20 Modern Rules a little bit better than the Call of Cthulhu rules (for example, the way combat is handled, the feats available, etc.) However, I think the d20 Modern Rules are, as written, a little too heroic. What I want is the characters to always be nervous about getting in a firefight, to know that any bullet can kill them. Here's some of the rules changes I'm thinking of, opinions are of course welcome...

• Change the massive damage threshold to 10 (like in Call of Cthulhu d20), as discussed in the Reality Level Boxed Text on p. 196 of the d20 Modern rules. However, I will still allow standard ability score generation (probably 4d6 method). High constitution characters are still at an advantage since they will have good fortitude saves. Similarly, this can be increased by means of feats, though the characters will have less feats (as indicated below).
• Use the six basic classes but have all characters be Ordinaries - no bonus feats at even levels, no talent trees at odd levels. Also, no action points. Given that this change will remove advanced classes from the game, extend the classes to 20th level (by simple extrapolation), to allow for a cloistered scientist type character.
• Given everything that is stacked up against the players, still give full hit points at first level.
• Keep the starting occupations.
• Add Sanity and Magic from Call of Cthulhu d20.

In so doing, I believe I will be creating characters roughly equivalent to those in the d20 Call of Cthulhu rules - perhaps they'll be a touch better, with the possibility of 9 (as opposed to 8) skill points per level, getting the simple weapon proficiency feat 1st level, and possibly one more feat from the starting occuptation, but overall I think a character generated in this method would be suitable for a Delta Green style game.

Thoughts/other suggestions?

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

When you change the Massive Damage Threshold, make sure you also pay attention to the results of the save. In CoC, a failed save means the character dies. In d20 Modern, it just means the character is reduced to -1 hit points. Big difference there...

 

[Dan Stack]

Good point. I think with that I like the d20 Modern variant - you're still in deep doo-doo, but you've got a chance.

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Ever since I found out about it, I've been pointing out the Grim-n-Gritty system to people who ask for realism. I've really fallen in love with these rules. They're very realistic- people actually start performing worse as they lose hitpoints, they start bleeding heavily relatively easily, etc. It might be too killer, though- I don't know what you're looking for.

 

[Dan Stack]

Thomas -

Thanks for the link - I'll have to give it some thought, but it sounds about what I'm looking for. I can definitely see characters diving for cover when a firearm is drawn.

What I'm mulling over is what I like about the Chaosium and d20 systems to decide which to use for a Delta Green style game. Though some people have advocated a straight d20 Modern system for a Delta Green game, that seems a little too high-action for me. In Delta Green, characters are very mortal, they just tend to work for government agencies.

What I like about Chaosium is the fairly strightforward rules engine and characters having low hit points. However, sometimes it seems to be a little too loose - for example how to adjudicate various modifiers to difficulty and be consistent about it.

While I like d20 Modern, I think the heroic classes are a little too feat-heavy for such a game. Hence my leaning towards Ordinary characters. Though I like the massive damage threshold rule, I do worry the impact of high level characters in such a setting.

The Grim-n-Gritty system does sound about right - it gives characters a decent number of starting hit points but they get better a lot slower under those rules. That I like. A character's defense bonus definitely factors into the ability to dodge, but typically not as much as a baddies improved abilities to hit. I suspect that would make characters seek cover and various other defensive options, something I like. Any details from your own experience with these rules?

One random thought that occurs to me is it might wind up being worthwhile to reconsider making the characters Ordinaries if I change the hit point system to the one you pointed out. It seems that the characters will be made rather mortal by such a system and might need the extra feat edge. Something I'll have to think about...

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Alas! I haven't yet had a chance to play d20 modern, let alone d20 modern with grim-n-gritty. But very soon a PbP over in the Playing the Game forum is starting up using those rules. I'm a player there, and I'll tell you how it goes.

 

[Henry]

Hi, Dan!

My personal suggestion would be to set MDT to 10, failure = -1 and dying, as in d20 modern, but use the gun values for type, damage, criticals, autofire, shotguns, etc. from Call of Cthulhu d20. You get better firearm variety, and autofire that differentiates a bit more from the all-purpose autofire and buirst fire of d20 modern. You also get very threatening shotguns at close range.

My suggestion would be to keep the feats and talents, however, because it is these that are really the defining traits of the classes. Without them, there's really little point between them and the Offensive/Defensive options in COCd20.

Good luck with the campaign!

 

[takyris]

Bear in mind that this isn't the kind of campaign I would run, so if I seem to be too heroic, that's probably just me not being able to get out of my own mind.

That said, if you WERE going to try to do d20 Modern but more realistic, my advice would be to do what they recommend -- drop the massive damage threshold to 10 and use Point Buy with fewer points allocated.

Players DO like to feel that they're controlling their destinies, and they DO like to get new features at each level -- that's why d20M set things up like that. But if you're using, I don't know, what does the book say? 15 point buy? If you're using 15 point buy and 10 as the massive damage threshold, ain't nobody gonna be yearning for a fight, even as they get more powerful.

There's a phrase that I love for low-level characters with too many magical items or absurdly high scores -- Glass Cannons. They can take out things of much higher levels, but hit them once and they're toast. Glass Cannons are a pain to GM and, once you realize what you are, not much fun to play, either. Letting players keep the 4d6, drop lowest method really makes them into Glass Cannons, I think.

As far as firearms, I think that the reason that the weapons are all similar is because a) It's somewhat more realistic and b) The designers wanted people to be able to use different guns for roleplaying reasons without taking a hit, statwise. They did it for the same reason that the D&D designers set all medium-sized martial weapons at 1d8 damage and Special Bit, like an improved critical range, an improved critical multiplier, or bonuses on trips and disarms (or 1d6 and two Special Bits, for rapiers and picks). That way, a character can choose a weapon other than a longsword and not feel like he's hamstringing himself for roleplaying reasons. Same goes for firearms in d20M.

-Tacky

 

[Dan Stack]

takyris -

Different opinions are always welcome. To be honest, I want to make sure I don't overcompensate. The "glass cannon" is a good way of putting it.

What I might wind up doing in my free time (ha! Not with an eleven month old... ) is trying out a few of the options at home to see how they work out.

Watch I'll wind up just doing straight-out d20 Cthulhu without much d20 Modern stuff.

As an aside, I like the firearms all doing similar damage. Means my players will spend more time looking at pictures of weapons as opposed to tables.

 

[ErichDragon]

To play devil's advocate; realistically humans are 'glass cannons'. Any fool can pull a trigger and kill a martial arts master in real life. It reminds me of that sales pitch used for Colt firearms in the Old West, something like "God created man...Colonel Colt made them equal".

This is not much fun to play in a game though.