Reaper Minis debuts its own OGL-based RPG system: Dungeon Delvers

[teitan]

I would bet on them being hardcover books by the time the campaign ends. But they'll definitely be thinner than the 5E core books.

They’re hardcover already.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

They’re hardcover already.

I'M A PROPHET!

 

[Clint_L]

This feels like they are re-inventing the wheel, but worse... 4 classes, 4 'folk', sounds like basic D&D basic. It also seems like they are reusing the miniatures design art as the illustrations (which are imho great). 384+ pages of pretty much rehashed OGL content in PDF for $49... Yeah, no!

Hmmm...it seems pretty distinct and well thought out rather than being a "rehash", and if you don't think the PDFs are worth it (which still seems like a steal), you could go to $79 and get them in hardcover as well. And it's not just source books, it's also adventure and setting books. It's hard to see that as anything but a great deal.

Or go to $99 and get a bunch of miniatures, as well.

If you're in for the minis keep in mind that these are not the plastics (PVC) from previous KS, they are moving to SIOcast with two ranges, including the Dungeon Dwellers line and calling it Bones USA.

The original bones plastic is really low quality PVC, so you are complaining about getting much higher quality that holds its shape and detail comparably to metal miniatures. No more bendy weapons.

I Love the Reaper (Bones) minis, but I had to bow out after Bones 5. With the value of each KS going down, huge increases in shipping costs, changes to VAT, etc. Reaper Bones became expensive! Especially when I am still drowning in all the minis from the previous KS campaigns... And looking at the KS backer numbers, I wasn't the only one who was thinking that way...

I put $500 into Bones 6 and (I just counted) am getting just shy of 400 miniatures and terrain pieces, including many that are large, huge, and even gargantuan. At Reaper quality, and they never fail to deliver. My Bones 5 and earlier stuff is spectacular.

There is no world in which that is not an amazing deal. Go to a FLGS right now and put $500 into Wizkids unpainted miniatures (Nolzur's) and see what you get - maybe a third as much, less once you start adding the huge and gargantuan miniatures to the pile. With generally worse sculpts and definitely lower quality plastic than siocast!

I agree that the value In Bones 6 decreased a bit from previous KSs. Inflation and shipping have sent prices up in miniatures, like everything else...but even so it is head and shoulders above anything else out there.

Edit: Spoiler alert: the prices on a Reaper KS are WAY better than you will ever get retail because they use the KSs to finance getting the moulds made, so are willing to sell the miniatures at break even or even a small loss. If you wait to buy retail you will be paying 2-3 times as much, comparable to what you will pay for unpainted miniatures at your FLGS.

 

[Cergorach]

@teitan If it's a superior material depends on your perspective. I agree the first bones were not great. They don't use SIOcast on the large models due to the limitations of the SIOcast machine and process (mold material vs. pressure). My main issue is that they are not very clear on the changes. They call everything 'bones', black, USA, and even within the regular bones series they use different materials, that is problematic.

@Clint_L Let's agree to disagree on the rehash, you see something different then I...

I did the Bones 5 and got 500+ minis at $1150, I'm unsure if that's including the shipping + VAT (the Pledge Manager Order email ain't that great years after the fact ). That's quite a bit more per mini then in your case... While I love the Reaper minis, at this point, I have thousands (especially when I add the CAV bones stuff), at this point I need a bigger house more then more minis!

Also keep in mind Bones #1 base pledge $100 => 260+ minis (with many monster like minis that you wanted more of). For $350 you had all the minis, free shipping within the US/Canada and $25 in shipping for ROW. (I of course bought more then just one of many monster minis).
Bones #6 base pledge $125 => 113 minis (plus bases). For $688 you had all the minis, plus way higher shipping, VAT, etc.

Many of these changes are economical in nature and not something Reaper can do much about. If you're in the US and don't have many minis already, go for it. I was also not really charmed by the ambiguity of the material choices, deciding after the KS wasn't great, but others might not care at all about that.

Let's just say that i wasn't the only one who bowed out of Bones #6:
Bones #5 backers: 18,587
Bones #6 backers: 9,898

I've also noticed that many, many minis are extremely cool, especially for painting, but in reality won't ever see use anytime this decade on the table... When you start buying minis for FOMO and the factor of kewl, that is a deep pit and the pile of shame (unpainted plastic) will increase quickly!

 

[Jahydin]

This might be the blandest RPG I've ever seen. Maybe I'm missing something? For those that are excited, what are some strengths that set this apart?

Also, terribly disappointed they didn't lean into a miniature heavy game akin to the original Warhammer Quest.

 

[teitan]

@teitan If it's a superior material depends on your perspective. I agree the first bones were not great. They don't use SIOcast on the large models due to the limitations of the SIOcast machine and process (mold material vs. pressure). My main issue is that they are not very clear on the changes. They call everything 'bones', black, USA, and even within the regular bones series they use different materials, that is problematic.

It's very clear on the package if something is SIOcast, it says Bones USA or Dungeon Dwellers and on the back it will say it is printed. The grey bonesium is the same as the white, it just has a different color. It's a very odd hill to die on when the obvious improvement in quality between classic and black is massive and then from black to Bones USA is also quite a leap as the quality is near metal if not the same in most cases and the RMPrint minis are superior. Very odd hill.

I am not sure where you are unclear on the changes though, even on the website they are sorted by materials aside from the few RMPrint minis offered right now.

The lower Bones 6 numbers are also directly attributable to the fact that many, many people had just gotten their Bones 5 rewards a few weeks to months before from the 5.5 mid-Pandemic reopening of the pledge manager and were still unboxing those and had dropped large sums on the pledge manager outside of the original kickstarter as well. The pandemic changes to shipping and increased costs really hit Reaper at that time. I remember Bones 6 launching, I was in Italy on a retreat and watching it. I have friends who backed the previous Kickstarters and are even tight with Reaper who didn't pledge or just enough for the dragons or a set they liked citing because they had just received their Bones 5 and even though they wouldn't get 6 until 2024 they were spent from the Bones 5 pledge manager reopening.

 

[teitan]

This might be the blandest RPG I've ever seen. Maybe I'm missing something? For those that are excited, what are some strengths that set this apart?

Also, terribly disappointed they didn't lean into a miniature heavy game akin to the original Warhammer Quest.
View attachment 323820

Cool thing is... it pretty much is that with all the minis, it just doesn't have the terrain.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Let's just say that i wasn't the only one who bowed out of Bones #6:
Bones #5 backers: 18,587
Bones #6 backers: 9,898

Once pandemic lockdown hit in 2020, I started dropping out of miniatures campaigns and got rid of 99.9% of my minis, since it was clear to me that my gaming future was going to mostly be online (I have family in three countries and friends all over the world). I suspect that was a driver for a lot of this drop-off, along with, yeah, at a certain point, even the most ardent minis fan will have hundreds or even thousands of minis.

(Ironically, now I need to buy a few minis again, because playing Dungeon! with the cardboard standees is for filthy casuals.)

 

[Jahydin]

Cool thing is... it pretty much is that with all the minis, it just doesn't have the terrain.

That's good to hear.

I think maybe I need to check out their adventures in order for it to "click" with me...

 

[Clint_L]

It's very clear on the package if something is SIOcast, it says Bones USA or Dungeon Dwellers and on the back it will say it is printed. The grey bonesium is the same as the white, it just has a different color. It's a very odd hill to die on when the obvious improvement in quality between classic and black is massive and then from black to Bones USA is also quite a leap as the quality is near metal if not the same in most cases and the RMPrint minis are superior. Very odd hill.

I am not sure where you are unclear on the changes though, even on the website they are sorted by materials aside from the few RMPrint minis offered right now.

Agreed - it's hard to understand how it can be denied that Reaper's newer plastics are objectively far higher quality that hold their shape far better and allow for much more precise details. Also note that they are made in the USA.

The lower Bones 6 numbers are also directly attributable to the fact that many, many people had just gotten their Bones 5 rewards a few weeks to months before from the 5.5 mid-Pandemic reopening of the pledge manager and were still unboxing those and had dropped large sums on the pledge manager outside of the original kickstarter as well. The pandemic changes to shipping and increased costs really hit Reaper at that time. I remember Bones 6 launching, I was in Italy on a retreat and watching it. I have friends who backed the previous Kickstarters and are even tight with Reaper who didn't pledge or just enough for the dragons or a set they liked citing because they had just received their Bones 5 and even though they wouldn't get 6 until 2024 they were spent from the Bones 5 pledge manager reopening.

I think it's a little of column A, a little of column B. Bones 6 did not launch at a great time, but I also think that most collectors consider the selection of miniatures inferior to Bones 5. Bones 5 is pretty widely acclaimed. It's also true that the price per miniature has gone up, but then so has inflation and, as noted, the miniatures are higher quality plastic.

As for the price of Bones 5, I actually bought into 5.5 (so it was bit more expensive) and paid less than $300 for three expansion sets and a bunch of add-ons...or all of this:

So I can't complain!

As I posted earlier, I think Reaper is a victim of their own success, to a significant degree. Their earlier Kickstarters helped make plastic miniatures much more accessible and also created a cost expectation that Reaper themselves cannot keep up with, between inflation, more expensive labour and materials, and much higher shipping costs.

However, look at Reaper 6 and tell me that there is a better value in terms of cost, quality and reliability to be found right now. If you compare it to past Reaper KSs I think it is less of a deal than they were. But it is still a way better deal than any of the competition.

The current KS is also looking like a pretty good deal - $50 for a set of 30 or so high quality miniatures is excellent - compare to Steamforged Epic Encounters, for example. $99 for all of the miniatures plus the entire game system, hardbound, and all the PDFs, and some other bonuses as well: that's a great deal!