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Recruiting for Return to White Plume Mountain

mfrench

First Post
Redclaw said:
You realize that that effectively takes away the racial ability bonus, right? Since you're purchasing scores from a pool of points, the +2/-2 cost means nothing, other than potentially having a 6 for one ability and a 20 for another.
Not that that's a big deal to me, but it's certainly a significant change in the crunch of the races.

I didn't see it quite that way. It changes two things:

A) Say you have a dwarf who wants to be competant at turning undead and diplomacy, and have a decent leadership score. He could spend feats on it, but the easiest way is to simply have a high Cha, which is his penalty stat. Under the standard system to get a 16, he must buy an 18 at a cost of 16 points, which is adjusted to a 16. His racial penalty cost him 6 points of point buy, which a human could use to turn and 8 into a 14. Thus, no dwarven bards or sorcerers, or paladins and clerics that can turn. Under my system, they are at least viable, though costly.

B) On the other end of the spectrum, take a halfling rogue who buys an 18 Dex and gets it bumped to a 20, which would cost 24 points by extrapolating the table in the DMG. Thus, his bonus nets him 8 points, which is a bit extreme. Under my system, it is easier to get a halfling to get an 18 Dex, but it doesn't give him a huge advantage.

A difference of 6 or 8 in point buy is worth at least a feat, so it seemed to make the system more equitable.
 

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Redclaw

First Post
That makes some sense, I guess it's just a different way of looking at it. I think we both see the same impact, a normalizing of the racial strengths and weaknesses, from two different perspectives. If you see the modifiers as limiting options, then the system you've got makes perfect sense and does a good job of minimizing that effect. I saw it more as a way of making the races more distinct from each other, and adding more identity to each one.

Regardless, you're the DM and I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of the rule. I was just interested in discussing the reason behind it and the reality of its impact. Thank you for clearing it up for me, and I hope my input hasn't made you less interested in letting me join the game. ;)
 

mfrench

First Post
Redclaw said:
That makes some sense, I guess it's just a different way of looking at it. I think we both see the same impact, a normalizing of the racial strengths and weaknesses, from two different perspectives. If you see the modifiers as limiting options, then the system you've got makes perfect sense and does a good job of minimizing that effect. I saw it more as a way of making the races more distinct from each other, and adding more identity to each one.

Regardless, you're the DM and I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of the rule. I was just interested in discussing the reason behind it and the reality of its impact. Thank you for clearing it up for me, and I hope my input hasn't made you less interested in letting me join the game. ;)

No worries, I enjoy discussions of house rules. Plus I realize that some of my ideas are probably half-baked, and need an outside perspective to point out their obvious errors.

It's not just a sense of the racial modifiers as limitations, it's just that my gaming experience has been with people that have a firm belief that dwarves are only certain classes, gnomes are only certain classes, halflings are only certain classes, and the rest are humans. The penalties just rule out certain builds for them, so I've tried to alleviate that in an attempt to bring some diversity. Obviously drawing from Enworld is a completely much broader population, where some people read the campaign idea and think, "Cool, I want to be a Knight of Luna" as opposed to "Man, elves are terrible compared to dwarves, why would I ever play one?" It's the same reason that I tied the various Greyhawk races with demihumans, and then was surprised that people were familiar enough with the different human societies that this would throw them off. I guess I should just come to expect more out of people!
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
mfrench said:
Partial BAB will be to your advantage, while Patial Saves probably won't.
Standard system:
Sorc 1 : 0 Bab, 0/0/2 saves
Wiz 4 : 2 Bab, 1/1/4 saves
U.M. 1 : 0 Bab, 0/0/2 saves
Total : 2 Bab, 1/1/8 saves

Under Partial, he has 6 levels of poor Bab, and 6 levels of poor/poor/good saves, meaning:
Total : 3 Bab, 2/2/5
which is more reasonable, in my opinion.

That's not exactly how Andy Collins' partial BAB/save system works as written in UA. If you look at the example cleric 5/fighter 2 he gives, it is clear that the +2 bonus for a good save is retained in his system. That is the only difference between the way you are presenting it and the way it is presented in the book. I would agree that your method is certainly is a more balanced method. I do think you should mention the exception in the campaign rules however. I myself used the it as written to calculate Svoldgar's saves, but I will fix it now that you have clarified that.
 

OnlytheStrong

Explorer
Only thing with the houserule that I can see as a potential problem (for some people) would be that there would be no advantage to being any other race besides human. An extra feat at a low level is a good thing :) That said.......... I'm sticking with elf no matter what :)
 

mfrench

First Post
Scotley : I'm going to use the rule as written for Weapon Groups and let you have that Repeating Crossbow proficiency without an extra feat for Exotic, since that seems to be the intention of the rules.

airwalkrr : I'll clarify the Partial BAB/Saves in the first House Rules post later on today.

OnlytheStrong : There are still benefits to being an elf, low-light vision, skill bonuses, bonus proficiencies, and living to a ripe old age!
 


Scotley

Hero
Valerie Romanie

Male Rhenne Halfling Rogue 1/Wizard (diviner) 5
Chaotic Good

Str 12 (6 points -2 race)
Dex 15 (6 points +2 race)
Con 12 (4 points)
Int 16 (8 points) +1 level bonus
Wis 12 (4 points)
Cha 12 (4 points)

Patron:
Hit Points 6 +6Con +5d4
AC 14, Touch 13, Flat 12 (+4 with mage armor)
Init +2
BAB +3, Grap +0, Ranged +5, +1 Size bonus +1 with thrown weapons and slings
Speed 20 (base 20, light armor)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +7 (includes +1 racial bonus) +2 moral bonus vs. fear

Small, 3’2" tall, 39 wt, 34 yrs old
Black straight hair, black eyes, olive skin

Ranged Touch +7 (+1 thrown racial bonus and x2 range from gauntlets) (+1 to hit and damage <30’)
Acidic Splatter Ranged Touch +8, 1 to 3d6, acid 20/x2 5’ to 15’ (x2 range for gauntlets) (+1 to hit and damage <30’)
MW Heavy small Repeating Crossbow +8, 1d8 p 20/x3 (+1 to hit and damage <30’)
MW Cold Iron small Glaive +5, 1d8+2 s 20/x3 reach weapon
Heavy Mace +4, 1d6+1 b 20/x2
Dagger +4 1d3+1 p or s 19-20/x2
Quarter staff +4 1d4+2 b 20/x2
Dagger Thrown +5, 1d3+1 p 19-20/x2 10’ (+1 to hit and damage <30’) (x2 range from gauntlets)
Sap +4, 1d4+1 Non-lethal b 20/x2

Speaks common, halfling, dwarven, draconic, elven

Skills 69 (8+3Int) x4 1st level and (2+3Int) x5 levels

Appraise (+3Int)
Balance (+2Dex+2syn)
Bluff (5+1Cha)
Climb (+1Str+2race)
Concentration (7+1Con)
Craft, trapmaking- (4+3Int+2 Tools)
Decipher Script (5+3Int+2)
Diplomacy (+1Cha+2syn)
Disguise (+1Cha+2syn—to act in character)
Disable Device (4+2Dex+2 Tool)
Escape Artist (+2Dex) ac
Forgery (1+3Int)
Gather Information (+1Cha)
Heal xx (1+1Wis+2kit)
Hide (+2Dex+4 race) ac
Intimidate (4+1Cha+2syn)
Jump (+1Str+2syn+2race) ac
Knowledge (arcana) (5+3Int)
Knowledge (history) (1+3Int)
Knowledge (nature) (1+3Int)
Knowledge (the planes (1+3Int)
Knowledge (royalty and nobility) (1+3Int)
Listen (2+1Wis+2 race+2-in arms reach of familiar)
Move Silently (1+2Dex+2 race) ac
Open Lock (3+2Dex+2Tools)
Perform—dance (1+1Cha)
Profession (+1Wis)
Ride xx (1+2Dex+1 Saddle+2 to stay mounted)
Search (4+3Int)
Sense Motive (+1Wis)
Slight of Hand (1+2Dex+2syn) ac
Spellcraft (5+3Int+2syn+2syn-scrolls)
Spot (2+1Wis+3-in bright light+2-in arms reach of familiar)
Survival xx (+1Wis)
Swim (+1Str)
Tumble (5+2Dex) ac
Use Magic Device (5+1Cha+4syn-scrolls)
Use Rope (+2Dex)

Feats
-Basic Weapon Proficiency-club, dagger, quarter staff
-Pole Arm Weapon Proficiency-glaive, guisarme, halberd, and ranseur
-Crossbow Weapon Proficiency-Heavy and Light crossbow including repeating
-Maces and Clubs Weapon Proficiency-club, light mace, heavy mace, greatclub, quarterstaff, sap and warmace
-Point blank shot (1st)
-Precise shot (3rd)
-Weapon Focus Ranged Touch (6th)
-Scribe Scroll (Wizard Bonus 1st)
-Summon Familiar (Wizard Bonus 1st)
-Acidic Splatter (reserve feat from Complete Mage) (Wizard Bonus 5th)

Halfling Traits
-+2 fear save bonus
-+1 to all saves
-+2climb, jump, move silently and listen
-small size gives to hit and AC bonuses, reduced weapon size, and +4 to hide, reduced carry cap.
-base speed 20’
-str -2, dex +2

Spell Book (barred school—necromancy)
0 Caltrops (sc), Electric Jolt (sc), Sonic Snap (sc), Silent Portal (sc), Amanuensis (sc), Launch Bolt (sc), Repair Minor Damage (sc), Stick (sc), Resistance, Acid Splash, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Daze, Dancing Lights, Flare, Light, Ray of Frost, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation

1st Sniper’s Shot (sc), Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Magic Weapon, Identify, Orb of Acid, Lesser (sc), Kelgore’s Fire Bolt (PH2), Whelm (PH2), Shield

2nd Melf’s Acid Arrow, Detect Thoughts, See Invisible, Scorching Ray, Locate Object, Luminous Swarm (CM),

3rd Unluck (sc), Circle Dance (sc), Acid Breath (sc), Lightening Bolt, Fireball, Scattering Trap (PH2),

4th Orb of Acid (SC)

Spells Memorized—Adventuring Save DC=level+3Int.
0 Detect Magic (s), Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Open Close
1st Sniper’s Shot (s), Mage Armor, Orb of Acid-lesser, Magic Missile, Whelm
2nd Detect Thoughts (s), Melf’s Acid Arrow, Luminous Swarm, Scorching Ray
3rd Unluck (s), Lightening Bolt, Acid Breath

Spells Memorized—Working as a finder
0 Detect Magic (s), Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Mending
1st Identify (s), Mage Armor, Whelm, Comprehend Languages, Orb of Acid-lesser
2nd Detect Thoughts (s), Melf’s Acid Arrow, See Invisible, Locate Object
3rd Circle Dance (s), Acid Breath, Scattering Trap


Appearance/Personality: Valerie is a tall somewhat thick Halfling with dark hair and eyes and swarthy skin. He has long nimble fingers and an easy smile. His features are somewhat blunt and he is rather plain looking and unremarkable. He wears long side burns and his hair a little long in a duck tail at the back and rather generous on top (think Elvis 1970’s). The Thistledown padded armor he wears under his clothes only serves to make him look even rounder than he is. He favors white shirts with large collars and broad cuff under a jacket of deep red and gold in a paisley pattern. He wears tan knee pants and generally goes bare foot in all but the coldest weather. Also in colder weather he adds warm woolen cloak and hood of brown fabric. When working or in the wild he wears a heavy repeating crossbow on his shoulder and takes along a Glaive which he normally carries in a holder on his ever present mount, a large shaggy dog named Sebastian. His pockets and pouches and a small pack are stuffed with gear when he is working. He is popular enough in the area of his small community where his mother was highly respected and he is friendly and outgoing with a kind word to all. However, he tends to have a problem with authority and is very independent minded, a trait no doubt inherited from his mother. He frequently butts heads with members of the council of wise women who have always resented the fact that he, as a male, was taught their traditionally feminine arts. While he rarely goes looking for a fight, his work often brings him into conflicts. He prefers to fight from a distance using missile and magic or his Glaive. He avoids melee whenever possible. He is considered a jovial fellow who enjoys good food, good wine and a story or poem in the local tavern. While he lives alone with his hawk and his dog he prefers the company of others and can be found in the tavern or tea house every day.

History/Background: Valerie Romanie styles himself a ‘Finder’. He finds lost or stolen things and missing persons or when business is slow lost dogs and lost sheep. He lives on the river in a medium-sized community of Rhenne in the central Flanness. (I left this a little vague since I didn’t know where you wanted us to start.) He was the son of a very popular and powerful Rhenne wise woman, Palmora. Unfortunately, her husband died young in a boating accident when Valerie was still a small boy. Her work kept her too busy to find another husband and she never had any other children. Because his mother was always so busy, young Valerie was often left to take care of himself. Like many young Rhenne he found himself running with a crowd of Roguish lads. They preyed on non-Rhenne who plied the river running simple cons and picking pockets or arranging elaborate distractions to allow them to take small amounts of cargo from passing barges. Eventually, his mother realized that Valerie needed a life of more substance. She was also getting older and wanted to pass on her gifts. She made a decision that would direct the course of the rest of Valerie’s life. She chose to teach him the skills and magic of the wise women. There was no law as such against teaching a man such things and certainly male spellcasters are common enough among other races. But among the Rhenne, such things simple are not done. Valerie soon learned the charms and divinations of the wise women. All was well until word started to get out. Soon the council of wise women learned of Palmora’s actions and she was censured by the council and striped of the vote in council meetings. Needless to say they never even considered allowing young Valerie to become a part of the organization. One power hungry wise woman in particular Anne Hedgeapple, championed the fight against Palmora and her son. She used this crusade as a starting off point for a campaign in favor of traditional values and to pass rules against those who would abandon traditional Rhenne ways. As she began to rise in power Palmora’s popularity continued to wane. When Palmora took ill none of the wise women would come to help her. By the time Valerie relized how sick his mother was and when to fetch a priest, it was too late. His mother died. Valerie never forgave Anne and the other wise women. For her part, Anne continues to consider Valerie an abomination.

Valerie inherited his mother’s wand and her spellbooks and continued to study magic. With no one in his own community to help him. Valerie sought out a new teacher. And found one in the person of Alember Gloramber, a elven wizard how lives in the forest a two day journey up the river. Valerie was eager to learn more interesting spells than the simple divinations and charms of the wise woman. He found that Alember was able to teach him much more powerful spells and how to hold back some of his magic to produce an effect. Valerie has a crush on the elf, though she is more than 400 years his senior. He visits her a couple of times a month to learn and just to enjoy her company. For her part the Elf finds Valerie’s youthful enthusiasm and quick wit appealing and he is one of her favorite pupils.

To make a living Valerie uses his spells and the rogue skills of his youth to become a finder. He often works with the local sheriff in the community, John Longfoot. John finds Valerie to be dogged and reliable. They are friends and John would like to add Valerie to his men, but Valerie is uncomfortable being part of the system as prefers to work on a freelance basis.

He has another good friend. A human riverboat captain named Padar Gravelford. Padar has known Valerie since he caught the lad trying to con him many years ago. Padar who had seen it all in his travels found it amusing to see what new trick the boy would try each time he traveled this part of the river. They made an ongoing game of it and even today when Valerie lives a respectable life they engage in friendly banter, competitions and bar bets whenever Padar is in town. Through Pandar’s stories Valerie has learned much of the world beyond his little bend in the river. He always looks forward to getting the latest news from the Captain. Of course in recent years the news always seems to be bad. The latest trouble is in the form of Anaksolamoon, a young red dragon driven far from her normal range by the raging hordes of barbarians in the north. Anaksolamoon has found easy picking and plentiful food among the Rhenne of the river. Those allies of the Rhenne who might have come in the past to slay the dragon are all embroiled in problems of their own with the numerous wars.

Now head of the Wise Women’s counsel, Anne Hedgeapple has decided that dragonslaying is man’s work. She has sent a letter from the counsel asking that Valerie help the Rhenne with the dragon. A weapon of great power that is been used to slay dragon’s in the past, Frostedge, must be found. Clues to its location have been found among the wise woman lore. Who better than a finder to undertake this important mission? Anne secretly hopes that Valerie will never return from his quest, but if he does she is confident she can manage to take credit for the recovery of the weapon.

Thistledown Padded Armor 405 gp (Races of the wild)
Explorers’ Outfit
Falconer’s Glove

MW Repeating Heavy Crossbow (small) 400 gp
-25 bolts 5 gp
Cold Iron MW Glaive (small) 316 gp
Heavy Mace (small) 12 gp
Dagger (small) 2 gp
Dagger x2 (small) 4 gp
Sap 1 gp

Backpack (center back) 2 gp
Bedroll (below backpack) 1 sp
Blanket, winter 5 sp
Belt pouch x2 2 gp
Torch x2 2 cp
Candle x6 6cp
Flint and Steel 1 gp
Waterskin-water (backpack) 1 gp
Trail Rations-4 days (backpack) 2 gp

Wand of Magic Missiles (9th level) 4725 gp (35 charges)
Ring of Protection +1 2000 gp
Gauntlets of Extended range (mic) 2000 gp thrown range doubles

Sun Rodx2 4 gp
MW Thieve’s Tools 150 gp
MW Trapmaker’s Tools 55 gp
Spell Component Pouch 5 gp
Spellbook 15 gp
Spellbook 15 gp (kept at home)
Scroll of Orb of Acid (SC) 700 gp
Scroll of Circle Dance (sc), Lightening Bolt, Fireball, Scattering Trap (PH2), 1500 gp
Scroll of See Invisible, Scorching Ray, Locate Object 450 gp
Scroll of Mage Armor 25 gp

Coins- 24 gp, 3 sp, 2 cp (pouch)

"Sebastian" Riding dog (war trained) 150 gp
-MW Military saddle with bird perch behind rider 210 gp
-Saddle bags 4 gp
--waterskin, winter blanket, dried meat 3 gp
--Spare component pouch 5 gp
--Spare Spellbook 15 gp

"Flintspar" Hawk Familiar
Size/Type:Tiny Magical Beast
Hit Dice:1d8 (half Valerie’s hp)
Initiative:+3
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 20 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +5 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-7
Attack: Talons +8 melee (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Talons +8 melee (1d4-2)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +7, Will +7
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +16 and as master
Feats/Familiar Abilities: Alertness, Weapon FinesseB, Improved Evasion,
Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells
 

Scotley

Hero
I'll pummel him into the proper format before putting him in the Rogue's Gallery or update my post here if there won't be an RG thread.
 

mfrench

First Post
Valerie is very interesting.

When I get more info on the Monk and Ultimate Magus, I'll make a decision to solidify the party size. I'll also get a RG put up over the weekend.
 

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