Red Hand of Doom: help for a dm?

[Moon-Lancer]

Ok, so its come to that time again, were I have yet another question

I have been reading alot of the threads and story hour of red hand. The cover says the adventure is 6-12 while the text inside says its 5-XX. I know that the 5-XX is the correct level for the adventure. I also know that red hand is a meat grinder, and a bit too lethal for my tastes (I really wouldn't want more then one death a climatic fight).

So Here is my question. If I run red hand with 5 pcs, at level 6, will the game be too easy? I plan to use the stronger versions of the dragons.

The party consists of
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a monkey thing from storm wreck. he is going to be a monk3/fighter2/drunken master1 or monk4/fighter1/drunkenmaster1
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Duergar (grey dwarf) fighter5
He is going to use take a Goliath Great hammer exotic weapon and take monkey grip.
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Twilight Elf (+2cha,con | -2int,wis) sorcererous 6 going (blasting and debuffing)
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Unknown: new player to 3.5 and to the group
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and a npc cleric played by the sorcererous but built by me. If the new the player does not make a character, the cleric will be her character.

Female Human Cleric 6
Neutral good Medium Humanoid
Init +1; Senses
senses; Listen +5, Spot +5
Languages Common,
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 17
hp 48 (6 HD)
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +10
Speed 30 (6 squares)
Ranged Elven Craft Great Bow +11 or +9/+9 1d10+3/x3
Melee Elven Craft Great Bow +7 1d6+3/x2
Base Atk +4; Grp +6
Special Actions turn undead
spontaneous casting (cure spells)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 6rd)
3rd— Dispel Magic, magic circle against evil, wind wall (DC 18), snareD(DC 18)
2nd— Silence(DC 17), restoration lesser,close wounds,resist energy,
spiritual weapon (d20+9)D
1st— obscuring mist, shield of faith, doom (DC 16), Sanctuary,True StrikeD (DC 16)
0—cure minor wounds (2), detect magic, resistance
D: Domain spell. Domains: war, elf
Abilities Str 14 Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 10
Feats EWP: Great bow, Weapon Focus: Great Bow, Point blank shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Zen Archery
Skills Concentration +11 Knowledge history +9 Diplomacy +9
Possessions a Great Bow+1 (c+2) Dark leaf Breast Plate+1, wand of cure light wounds, Parapet of wisdom+2, Dark wood buckler+1, 40 Dragons breath arrows, 40 Swiftwing arrows, 20 serpents tongue arrows, 107 gold


Basically, from doing the other characters math in my head,

the monkey monk and dwarf fighter have an ac around 23, but low attacks around +8 or +9. The dwarf hits hard, and could be any ware from 3d6+6 to 4d6+12 (depending on feat choices or magic items he may or may not take and if he is enlarged)

The Sorceries may be going for born of 3 thunders (using up most of her skill points in cross class)

So I am wondering if they are too strong, or just right. All the stories i Have read seem to be red hand slaughters the party (when they are level 5), or the party walks all over the encounter (when they are level 6). I admit That when i told the adventurers what level they needed to be, I was reading the cover. I would like to keep it a level 6 adventure if possible.

Any suggestions on running a level 6 starting party playing red hand, I would appreciate the insight. especially if the enhanced dragon encounters were used.

*edit* I will try to get the stats of the other party members and post them here for better feedback.

 

[Squire James]

The module actually has details about getting a good-aligned party into Rhest. It went something like:

1. PC's warned of possible forces on the north road, possibly enough to intercept and attack the people moving east to Brindol.

2. PC's find guarded watchtower, and take it over after a hard fight. Sometime around the end of the fight (or perhaps that night when resting), the sharpest PC sees a winged figure go down in the outskirts of the swamp (it is a giant owl ridden by an elf, though the party doesn't necessarily know this).

3. PC's investigate the swamp, and encounter the greenspawn thing that ate the owl. Other elves land and parlay ensues.

Things can certainly go wrong here... the party may ignore the flying creature or decide the elves are being too haughty to live! But there was plenty of startup for my group of PC's.

As for the other question, I'd run the adventure as written for a while and see if they're having an easy or hard time with things. If they handle lots of mooks with ease, consider adding 20-50% more mooks. If they handle the Big Boys with ease, think of increasing levels by 2 or raising an age category on the dragons. Except the Ghost Lord... just give him a better spell selection and you're good to go!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

ok. thanks for the advice.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

So Here is my question. If I run red hand with 5 pcs, at level 6, will the game be too easy? I plan to use the stronger versions of the dragons.

It depends on whether or not you also add Jorr and Captain Sorianna to the party on top of that, I think. I would advise against doing that simply because the fights will get pretty cumbersome to run.

The one thing that Red Hand does quite well is it sets up fights with moderate numbers of moderate opponents. You do not typically fight solo monsters, and you do not fight masses of 1 and 2 HD creatures. The first act gets alot of use out of 4 HD Warrior Hobgoblins. Individually, they do not really seem to inflict huge amounts of damage. But they have surprising staying power. To put it another way, your blaster will not be able to clear the board every fight, and unless you have a melee guy with very heavy damage output, no one is really cleave bait.

My own party consists of 5 lvl 6 characters and Captain Sorianna (Jorr bit it at Vraath keep). In game, one of my players usually fails to make it. At least its a different absent player every time. They are doing pretty decently, but pretty much any of the set piece fights manage to push them pretty hard. Add in some enforcement of the timeline, and the risk is usually running out of spells.

It sounds like your party should have some pretty solid staying power though, so I would not worry about having to dial it back. If your party is capable of showing any measure of restraint and caution, you will do fine.

If they are not capable of restraint, the biggest dangers will be the Hydra encounter in the Swamp, and the Skull Gorge Bridge. The Hydra is a terror because it has Reach, multiple attacks, fast healing, and with its swimming movement, can get around in the stream part of the swamp easily. The players will get chewed by AoO's due to the swampy ground being difficult terrain preventing them from using 5 foot steps from getting close. All the Hydra has to do is hit and run, letting its fast healing give it time to recover from damage.

The Gorge can be nasty simply because there are alot of 4 HD veterans with decent HP, plenty of Moderate Healing potions, and a Dragon that can strafe with the breath weapon or bite while staying out of melee. Using stealth on the bridge is also difficult because the Hell Hounds can scent invisible creatures, and the Dragon has absurd spot and listen skills.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Pbartender]

So Here is my question. If I run red hand with 5 pcs, at level 6, will the game be too easy? I plan to use the stronger versions of the dragons.

I'd say it has far more to do with the tyipcal tactics of your players, than with the relative party level to CR ratio of the encounters.

Our group, for example, fought the Skull Gorge Battle twice... The first time we had our asses handed to us on a platter. A mistake in planning had us stumble into the encounter before we were ready for it, and due to poor battle tactics, our druid died and two other PCs went down before we retreated. The second time we tackled it, we knew what we were getting into and were prepared. We clobbered the pesky hobgoblins, and forced the dragon to retreat.

The hydra we ignored... There wasn't a good reason to fight it, and maybe it would take out a few Red Hand soldiers as they passed by.

The Ghost Lord, ostensibly a "bad guy", we hope to negotiage with to either stay out of the fight or exact vengeance against the Red Hand, since we've retrieved his phylactery for him.

The players need to be able to figure out when they should fight, when they shouldn't fight, and what the best way to approach each encounter is. They need to know that it's not necessary to fight every encounter (though not fighting and winning can alter the outcome of the adventure). And you, the DM, needs to make sure they are getting enough information (when they look for it) to let them figure those things out.