Regeneration & Incorporeal

[Gromnar]

Hi eveyone!

I have two questions, most likely basic but I'd like some clarification if anyone has the answers.

My first question is about the regeneration special ability. For a boss monster in my campaign, I'm looking at adding the Monster of Legend template to a War Troll fom MM3. The troll has regeneration that is only bypased by acid. Now, if from the template, I give it immunity to acid, how would the adventurers actually kill the troll?

My second question, non-related, is a creature with the Phantom template, when incorporeal, capable of flight? The condition in the SRD doesn't say anything about it actually flying.

Any help would be great.

 

[Dandu]

My first question is about the regeneration special ability. For a boss monster in my campaign, I'm looking at adding the Monster of Legend template to a War Troll fom MM3. The troll has regeneration that is only bypased by acid. Now, if from the template, I give it immunity to acid, how would the adventurers actually kill the troll?

Save or Dies, Constitution damage, and level drain come to mind.

 

[xigbar]

If the base creature had flight, it doesn't lose it simply for becoming incorporeal.

 

[emoplato]

Hi eveyone!

My first question is about the regeneration special ability. For a boss monster in my campaign, I'm looking at adding the Monster of Legend template to a War Troll fom MM3. The troll has regeneration that is only bypased by acid. Now, if from the template, I give it immunity to acid, how would the adventurers actually kill the troll?

Any help would be great.

They would just need to hack it up more. Regeneration in D&D essentially doubles your health to anything that isn't especially dangerous to you. When first attacking the creature if you just bash it normally the damage falls into its nonlethal hit points(equal to its regular) and heals that total with whatever number it says it does per round. When you hit it with it is weak to, like a War Troll with acid, it goes directly to its regular hit points. When its nonlethal hit points hit below 0 it falls unconscious in which then you can deliver a coup de grace. Otherwise, if its nonlethal hit points are down then its lethal should be up for anything to damage them.

 

[frankthedm]

When its nonlethal hit points hit below 0 it falls unconscious in which then you can deliver a coup de grace.

Only IF the CDG is from something that deals it lethal damage!

"A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage."

And the attack has to qualify for a CDG attempt. This is a reason why you will see threads about what can and what can't prform a CDG!

"As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target."

Otherwise, if its nonlethal hit points are down then its lethal should be up for anything to damage them.

No, in 3.5, the nothlethal damage keeps adding up, but it stays nonlethal, it does not wrap around to lethal damage once HP are exceeded.

 

[SLOTHmaster]

Though that's true in 3.5, I'd houserule back to wrap-around for this specific case. Or you could have them knock him unconscious and leave him for dead, he sounds like he could be a nasty reoccurring villain.

 

[Greenfield]

In many ways I'd say that's cheating, designing a monster that specifically can't be killed by the party.

That being said, there are a few ways to deal with said critter.

Knocking him out, then holding his head under water would work. He'll fail his "hold breath" check immediately, since an unconscious creature can't decide to hold its breath. That drops his real hit points to zero, and the next round he dies from drowning.

If there's no bucket of water handy, a strangling cord around the neck does the same job. The rules address both issues as forms of suffocation.

He can still be turned to stone then broken. That kills him quite nicely.

Similarly he can be Polymorphed into something without Regeneration, then killed.

Decapitation via a Vorpal effect would kill him.

The thing you need to look out for would be some form of Charm that makes him their friend/ally. Then the problem of how to deal with an unkillable combat machine becomes yours, not theirs.

 

[Samloyal23]

In many ways I'd say that's cheating, designing a monster that specifically can't be killed by the party.

That being said, there are a few ways to deal with said critter.

Knocking him out, then holding his head under water would work. He'll fail his "hold breath" check immediately, since an unconscious creature can't decide to hold its breath. That drops his real hit points to zero, and the next round he dies from drowning.

If there's no bucket of water handy, a strangling cord around the neck does the same job. The rules address both issues as forms of suffocation.

He can still be turned to stone then broken. That kills him quite nicely.

Similarly he can be Polymorphed into something without Regeneration, then killed.

Decapitation via a Vorpal effect would kill him.

The thing you need to look out for would be some form of Charm that makes him their friend/ally. Then the problem of how to deal with an unkillable combat machine becomes yours, not theirs.

A villain with this type of immunity to damage is great for the Macbeth Effect, thinking he's invulnerable till he faces a walking loophole to his power...

 

[lolstrider7]

[D&D 3.5] The Emerald Legion-Mass Producing Ikea Tarrasques - Giant in the Playground Forums
This thread details the ways to proof against attacks on creatures like this...
Therefore, one can extrapolate ways to kill it from this thread.

 

[Gromnar]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. The party was able to defeat the monster with a different weakness I gave it.

In the end, the creature was a CE War Troll Monster of Legend Cancer Mage 3. I made the cancerous companion, when damaged, unable to be regenerated. The characters were smart and were able to divine its weakness, so the battle was pretty even for awhile. In the end, they prevailed by using that weakness to deal lethal damage and by constantly knocking it unconcious so they could get close to apply the necessary spells.

I was happy with the immunity to acid since the party are all gestalt characters, they were pretty powerful as they were. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't make such a creature in a regular game, but it suited this one.