Remorhaz and Immoth

[Vraister]

Hey,
do you guys think that the Remorhaz and the Immoth(MM2) are apropriate for their CR?

The Remorhaz has a huge grappel modifier and swallow whole with an extra 10d10 heat damage. I think thats quite a lot for a CR7 Monster.

The Immoth is large elemental which casts spells as a 12level sorcerer and the thing can cast spells from ice runes as a free action, but its only CR9. Do you think thats ok?

I find both CR a bit low and would like to here your comments.

Vraister

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Remorhaz: Yes, if 7th-level PCs go toe-to-toe against a Remorhaz, they're doomed. On the other hand, 7th-level PCs usually have a way of flying and can thus pelt the remorhaz with ranged attacks until it dies, without even being threatened. It's pretty much a TPK or a PK (Piece of Kake) for a 7th-level party facing a Remorhaz, IMO.

Immoth: That is very true. A creature who can cast as a 12th-level sorcerer should at least have the CR of a 12th level sorcerer (ie 12), especially if it has more hp, better fighting capacities, DR, is immune to mind affecting spells and sneak attack, etc.

AR

 

[Majere]

Rhomorhez's are an unfortunate thing.
They usually eat one or two party members and then die.
This applies at almost any level 7-15 if the spring from ambush.

Majere

 

[Plane Sailing]

In case you're interested, other threads about Remorhaz and CR

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73334&highlight=remorhaz

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32410&highlight=remorhaz

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30178&highlight=remorhaz


Cheers

 

[Gizzard]

And there are several threads about the Immoth as well.

I played module that contains both an Immoth and a Remorrahaz. The latter was scary but ended up eating a lot of donkeys and NPCs while the Wizard and Druid flew away in safety. The party unloaded on it and killed it pretty quickly with magic and one full round of Ranger combat. Still, if it had randomly emerged under one of the PCs instead of under a donkey...

OTOH, the Immoth just smashed the party (who were 4x 8th level; a Druid, a Wizard, a Ranger and a Rogue). My thought on this was that the value of the Immoth's Ice Rune ability has gone way up now that Haste has been changed in 3.5E. So the Immoth is Flying and throwing two major spells each turn which is just outpacing the Druid8 and Wizard8.

Anyway, the Immoth is underrated by a good bit, especially if you transfer him as-is to 3.5, while the Remorrahaz is probably about right, but very luck dependent.

 

[the Jester]

In 3.5 a remorhaz does only 8d6 heat damage, actually.

Shame, really.

As to the immoth, as a good rule of thumb if a creature casts spells its CR should be at least equal to its caster level.

 

[frankthedm]

In 3.5 a remorhaz does only 8d6 heat damage, actually.

Shame, really.

As to the immoth, as a good rule of thumb if a creature casts spells its CR should be at least equal to its caster level.

Nope bad rule of thumb, NPC CR accounts for optimised gear being used. Not that i am saying immoth CR is on the dot.

 

[UltimaGabe]

The same problem, of course, arises with the Steel Dragon, released by WotC. It's got BAB of a Fighter, Saves like a Monk, HD like a Barbarian, SR in the high 30's, a breath weapon of Poison, and casts spells like a 21st-level Sorcerer. And yet, somehow, it's a CR 18.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Similarly Planetars - kickin' stats and spell like abilities plus casts as a 17th level cleric. CR16

Trumpet Archon - excellent stats and special qualities, plus casts as a 14th level cleric - CR14

cheers

 

[Vraister]

Thanks for the answers.

I'm running 'Into the frozen waste' this evening and I'm worried about these two creatures.
I probably give them a spot/survival check to notice large holes in the distance and make it two young ones.
The Immoth will be reduced in caster level.

Vraister