remorhaz: CR 7. is it?

[eXodus]

hey there folks.

the game i am running has just moved into a harsh, violent, brutal, and frozen northern climate. and looking over my MM and comparing CRs to the levels of the PCs i ran across the remorhaz as a possible encounter.

the heroes are the following sun elf evoker 8, moon elf wizard1/fighter6 (archer), moon elf paladin4/wizard3, halfing rogue3/cleric of brandobaris5, human barbarian1/fighter4/longblade3.

the CR of the remorhaz is listed as being 7 but the damage it is capable of dishing out seems a little high. i have not ran one before and i am a little worried about killing off a character because of a faulty CR.

how has it been for other people? have you had any issues about it? any suggestions? remorhaz stories?

seeing as i have killed nine characters off so far in this campaign i am rather cautious these days. i do not want to be a rat-bastard DM.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

9 characters dead so far? You are a rat-bastard DM..)

I don't often trust challenge ratings, many times they seem too high or too low. I just go with what I feel the party can handle giving average rolls.

You have to ask yourself, how much damage can party dish out and how much can the Remohraz take? If the Remohraz will die quickly, then it won't dish out too much.

 

[Xarlen]

There's one spesific thing about the Remorhaz you need to take into account.

It can't hit you at range. Spellcasters should have some way into the air by now, or some way to GET THE HECK OUTTA THERE. All they need to do is get away as FAST as they can and then start peppering it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Frankly, the Remorhaz is likely to kill one of your party members unless they are lucky.

It's modus operandii is an attack from ambush under the snow and ice, and if it hits its first target it is very likely to swallow and quickly kill them.

If one of the party has tracking (or possibly wilderness lore) you might allow them the chance to detect danger signs of an ambush position.

If the party were wandering along and spotted it 150ft away they shouldn't have any problem... but for a creature that can burrow, that isn't really very likely.

There have been numerous threads in the past about the lethality of Remorhaz when it ambushes, contrasted with its lack of mobility and ranged combat.

Cheers

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Remorhaz is CR 7 if it is found out in the open. If it gets to set up a perfect ambush its effective CR is more like 11.

It is quite likely to kill a PC unless they are forwarned by a successful Wilderness Lore or Spot check.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The Remorhaz is CR 7 if it is found out in the open. If it gets to set up a perfect ambush its effective CR is more like 11.

It is quite likely to kill a PC unless they are forwarned by a successful Wilderness Lore or Spot check.

This is an area of CR that I think they screwed up. Sure give the CR of non-ambush for most monsters. But if in the descriptive text it describes a monster that you will most likely use in an ambush because that's how they fight like the Remorhaz its CR should be the ambush CR and the DM can knock it down a bit if the fight starts off with the Remorhaz out in the open for some reaosn like attacking another group.

Even still the CR7 is slightly low IMO because unless the party knows how to deal with it, a player death is fairly likely. Take my the Remorhaz is out in the open example where its attacking a group.(some peasent caravan for example) the players without knowing the stats of the monster would most likely run up and fight it to help the caravan. A weapon may be destroyed in the 1st attack, the remorhaz notes some real opposition(things that actually hurt it) one bite later and the damage the PC takes will likely kill it even if its a fighter.

 

[Henry]

Also be sure not to confuse CR and EL. The CR of a creature never changes; the EL affects treasure and effective party capability against such a threat.

A remorhaz is tough, but not unbeatable. I always say, if only one character out of four dies, then 25% of party resources is still spent. But then, that's my evil side showing.

 

[WizarDru]

This is an area of CR that I think they screwed up. Sure give the CR of non-ambush for most monsters. But if in the descriptive text it describes a monster that you will most likely use in an ambush because that's how they fight like the Remorhaz its CR should be the ambush CR and the DM can knock it down a bit if the fight starts off with the Remorhaz out in the open for some reaosn like attacking another group.

They already do give you different ratings. What you're talking about is the difference between CR and EL, here. A Remorhaz that manages to ambush the party is a considerably higher EL than one that the party sees coming.

The CR system is a rule of thumb, not a hard guideline. To a party without a cleric, a ghast is a much more dangerous foe than with one. To a group without strong fighters, Iron Golems are walking death. So to with the Remorhaz...depending on the situation, it could be devastating or a cake walk. The CR system can possibly factor in all of the different factors, especially as concerns a single group. Factor in the many of the Remorhaz's weaknesses, and it's no suprise that it's a CR 7 creature, IMHO.

I would agree that perhaps they CR system could offer some granularity...but what would you suggest? The beauty of the current system is it's simplicity...too much detail, and it becomes more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Caliban]

I don't think a Remorhaz is EL 11, even when ambushing.

I ran an encounter recently that had two Frost Giants and a Remorhaz ambush a group of 10th and 11th level characters.

One of the fighters took some damage during the first round, then two Hold Monsters later was one Frost giant getting beat down by the fighter, cleric and rogue. Then the rogue went and CDG the two held ones. It didn't even use 10% of the parties resources.

 

[Marauder]

It's only too low if a DM insists on adding 10d10 heat damage in addition to the bite damage should that attack hit. I don't think that this is the intent.

Furthermore, an attended item (eg a magic weapon used to strike the creature) gets a Fort save using either it's own or the user's modifier. A 7th level Fighter has a +5 base Fort save, requiring a 13 or better to succeed. A standard fighter has probably got +8 or more due to Con and other modifiers, so this translates into a better than 50% likelihood that the weapon is not destroyed (if it is magical - only magic weapons get a save).

Then it's more of a CR 7 creature.

Unless - as has been mentioned - it ambushes, in which case you should probably use the EL instead of the CR (which would be 9 for an ambush I would think, which corresponds to an encounter twice as difficult as it would have been if it was a straight-up fight).