Replacing 3e's crit system with Hackmaster's....

[shoplifter]

Well, I've been thinking about altering 3e's crit system. I'm pretty sure that I'd like to sub in Hackmaster's system for the standard one. I've got a pretty good idea of how I want to handle it, but there are a few issues that I'm not sure about yet.

For those not familiar with HM's system, each character has a Base Severity Level. Its computed by finding a character's chance to hit (AC 15 on the OLD scale) plus bonuses, which is then modified by the targets AC and a d8 roll.

To try to transfer that to 3e, I think I'm going to go with:

(BAB + To hit bonuses + d6/d8/d10) - (target's AC - 10) = Severity Level

The die to be rolled would be determined by the weapon damage multiplier on crit (x2 = d6, x3 = d8, x4 = d10), and the multiplier would just be thrown out, and factored into the crit itself. I may make the range wider however, with x2 = d4, x3 = d8 and x4 = d12.

I may go with 'exploding/penetration' dice on the roll (like in HM) but I haven't decided yet, as the lower dice give a greater chance of such, and most weapons with x2 have a wider range of crit, thus they'd be FAR more potent. Of course, 'negative penetration' (roll a 1, reroll and SUBTRACT that roll) would be more likely for the smaller dice as well now that I think about it, so it may even out in the end.

There would be no more 'confirming' crits, as the severity is pretty fair, IMO. Also, no penetration dice for damage either, as there would be in HM. This would make combat more lethal, but maybe a bit more fun and less grainy.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

The exploding damage dice do not actually change the relative position of the dice.

The averages for exploding dice are as follows.

d4: 3 1/3
d6: 4 1/5
d8: 5 1/7
d10: 6 1/9
d12: 7 1/11
d20: 11 1/19

The problem with this system is that it is likely to unbalance the different types of weapons. As it is, a 20/x3 weapon does the same amount of damage on average as a 19-20/x2. This looks to leave the sword doing twice as many crits, and having the axe's crits not be twice as severe like they are now (in terms of added damage. Or is there something I'm missing.

 

[shoplifter]

The problem with this system is that it is likely to unbalance the different types of weapons. As it is, a 20/x3 weapon does the same amount of damage on average as a 19-20/x2. This looks to leave the sword doing twice as many crits, and having the axe's crits not be twice as severe like they are now (in terms of added damage.

This is one reason I think that I'm going to go with the d4/d8/d12 solution for the severity roll. Rolling a d4 for x2 and d8 for x3 gives the x3 weapon a better CHANCE for the crit to be more severe. Twice as severe on average. I'm still tweaking a bit, and i need to look at the HM crit charts before deciding, but I think d4/d8/d12 may be how I go about it. d12 may end up being 2d6, but I don't know if I want to curve the x4 weapon really..

Thanks for mentioning the exploding dice however. I hadn't thought of it in quite that manner yet. I think those averages are close enough for me to handle at the d4/d8/d12 level.

 

[Jasperak]

Exploding dice?

 

[shoplifter]

Penetration/exploding dice is an optional (in some games built-in) system in which when a die is rolled at it's maximum value, it's rerolled and you add the value of that second roll minus one. If the highest number is rolled again, reroll and add again, ad infinitum.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Penetration/exploding dice is an optional (in some games built-in) system in which when a die is rolled at it's maximum value, it's rerolled and you add the value of that second roll minus one. If the highest number is rolled again, reroll and add again, ad infinitum.

Minus one?

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

-1. My averages don't include -1. That would play hell with them.

 

[shoplifter]

Minus one?

Yep. Subtract one from subsequent rolls. This makes a value of '4' on d4 still possible.

Ex:

on a d6 damage roll, I roll a 6. Since I'm playing with penetration damage, I reroll and subtract one from my next roll. I roll a '4' on my next roll. I subtract 1, making it a '3' and adding it to my previously rolled '6' for a total of '9'.

Had I rolled a '1' on my second roll, I'd have added '0', leaving me with the '6'.

Had I rolled '6', I'd add '5' and roll again, doing the same.



edit: To be honest, I can't recall if Spycraft uses the -1 on exploding dice, as you have to use an action die to do it IIRC. HM definitely does use the -1 though.

 

[Jasperak]

This seems like an interesting idea. I'd like to see it once it is fully fleshed out.

 

[shoplifter]

I think that I may switch the formula a bit, and also add to it the amount the attack roll beats the opponents AC by (kind of like the old Player's Option books). This way I can still reward high BABs and give fighter-types the advantage they deserve, while still not being too much math.

So, as of now, the formula is:

(TOTAL attack roll - opponents AC) + (2d4/2d6/2d8 )

You'll then have the player roll d10000 (or 9000, d8000+2000 as appropriate per size difference) and cross reference the crit table.

I'll be using penetration dice as well.

This puts the crits on a bell curve, gives the higher mulitple weapons a better crit.

For an opponent with a high AC that can ONLY be hit on a natural 20, you must reroll and roll in your threat range. This makes crits on 'impossible to hit' monsters appropriately rare.

BTW, thanks for all the comments everyone. My players are appropriately psyched and afraid of next week's game


I should also note that we don't use keen weapons/improved crit in my campaign. Casting 'Keen Edge' is OK, as it uses up party resources, but I felt that with the frequency of crits we had in the last campaign it was just too much, so I axed the weapons/feat.


I'll try to type up an gameplay example when I get home from work.