Resolving Two Triggers at the Same Time

[Ryujin]

That was my initial thought, but if Unseen Hand triggers between the hit and the damage, and the whole point of Unseen Hand is to push the enemy away, does that mean that the damage portion of the melee basic attack doesn't connect?

Unseen Hand is 'no action', 'ranged 10' and target 'one creature', not the same target.

... at least according to Compendium.

 

[JohnnyO]

Unseen Hand is 'no action', 'ranged 10' and target 'one creature', not the same target.

... at least according to Compendium.

Yup, that's the correct power. In this case, the "one creature" was the same one hit by the MBA.

 

[Fkewl]

I've just read the power and nothing in there indicates it need to be another creature

It can be the creature that is attacked or another creature in range, friend or foe.

So if the PC slides the attacked creature out of range of the attack by a free action on a hit, then no damage happens (invalidates his own attack).

Now, if you slide the attacked creature (for flanking with other PC's) but still in range of the attack, damage happens.

This power is for crowd control (sliding ennemies for flanking, or other ennemies in range or out of range)

"and the whole point of Unseen Hand is to push the enemy away" -> the power is not a Push, but Slide. Mucho different.

 

[Ryujin]

No, there's no requirement that it be another creature, but my point is that it doesn't have to be the SAME creature. Poorly explained, I guess. Given that it's a ranged power, not a close burst or equivalent, shouldn't it also result in being interrupted for a OA though?

 

[JohnnyO]

No, there's no requirement that it be another creature, but my point is that it doesn't have to be the SAME creature. Poorly explained, I guess. Given that it's a ranged power, not a close burst or equivalent, shouldn't it also result in being interrupted for a OA though?

Normally yes, but Bladesingers have something called Guarded Flourish, which ingores OA from ranged and area attacks if they are wielding a weapon and nothing in their off-hand (which they pretty much always are)

 

[Ryujin]

Normally yes, but Bladesingers have something called Guarded Flourish, which ingores OA from ranged and area attacks if they are wielding a weapon and nothing in their off-hand (which they pretty much always are)

Got it. That's the disadvantage of only seeing the class in Builder; you miss that sort of thing. It's a class I think I'd like to play, with what sounds to be the flavour of the old 1e Fighter/MU elf.

 

[keterys]

Resolve hit with unseen hand first then apply damage to the Minotaur, resolve Charge at the end.

This is not correct. Triggered free actions resolve after their triggering action, unless they must resolve during the action to make any sense.

Unseen Hand, being an entirely separate attack effect, does not need to resolve during the attack. So it's:

Hit with MBA
MBA Damage
MBA Resolved
... (Unseen Hand and/or Minotaur Rebuke in some order)
Profit!

 

[Ryujin]

This is not correct. Triggered free actions resolve after their triggering action, unless they must resolve during the action to make any sense.

Unseen Hand, being an entirely separate attack effect, does not need to resolve during the attack. So it's:

Hit with MBA
MBA Damage
MBA Resolved
... (Unseen Hand and/or Minotaur Rebuke in some order)
Profit!

Perhaps, except that Unseen Hand is a "no action", not a "free action." To me that makes it even easier to determine what I had already stated; that The MBA and Unseen Hand are completed first, then the resulting immediate reaction.

 

[keterys]

That's helpful and is probably a good reason to give the Bladesinger the nod, though it lets you shift the question of resolution to what happens with no action death bursts (ex: Abyssal Ghouls)

It doesn't _really_ solve the question conclusively, though. The No Action Unseen Hand still clearly happens after the damage - after all, otherwise sliding the target away would prevent the damage

 

[Ryujin]

That's helpful and is probably a good reason to give the Bladesinger the nod, though it lets you shift the question of resolution to what happens with no action death bursts (ex: Abyssal Ghouls)

It doesn't _really_ solve the question conclusively, though. The No Action Unseen Hand still clearly happens after the damage - after all, otherwise sliding the target away would prevent the damage

I would say that a "no action" happens at the same time as the "triggering action." After all it's not an action, by itself.