Resonance, Potency, & Potions: A Look At Magic Items in Pathfinder 2

Paizo has been delving into the way magic items work in its latest previews of Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Last week they spoke about Resonance, a resource that characters have for activating magical items; and on Friday they blogged about Potency, which is linked to the power of a magical weapon.

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Resonance is measured in Resonance Points (RP). Activating an item costs 1 RP, and your RP total is your level plus your Charisma modifier. Paizo points out that "We expect Resonance Points to be a contentious topic, and we're really curious to see how it plays at your tables. It's one of the more experimental changes to the game, and the playtest process gives us a chance to see it in the wild before committing to it."

They also preview a few magic items - cloak of elvenkind, floating shield, staff of healing, and some trinkets such as a fear gem, and vanishing coin.

When it comes to weapons, Resonance is not required; weapons have a "potency" value, which is roughly equivalent to its "plus" -- it gives you a bonus to attack, increases damage by a whole damage die per potency point (i.e. a +1 longsword gives +1 to hit and +1d8 damage). Potency and special qualities are limited by a weapon's quality - standard, expert, master, legendary.

Quality	Max Potency	Max Properties
Standard	+0	0
Expert	+2	1
Master	+4	2
Legendary	+5	3

Potency and properties are contained within transferrable magical runes, often found on a runestone. Some examples shown are disrupting, and vorpal.

Amor similarly has potency and properties. Potency affects AC, TAC, and saving throws. Some properties include invisibility and fortification.

This takes us on to potions. Potions can now have high level effects, and they don't have to be tied to the spell lists. Examples including healing potions, invisibility potions, dragon's breath potions, and oil of mending.​

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[The Crimson Binome]

Well no, the power source is external. It literally is enchanted into the item.

It's magic. It can work however the designer wants it to work. My explanation is exactly as realistic as your explanation (i.e. zero percent).

The only possible issue is if it was first established within canon that it worked one way, and then later on in the same continuity it works differently. If you have a story that starts in Pathfinder 1, and the same story is continued in Pathfinder 2, then you would need to address why the functionality is changed. It isn't something that Golarion has had to deal with before, as far as I know, but they always come up with a sufficient explanation when it happens in Faerun.

So I guess it would be like wanting to make a new word in English but having to check what the rules of Esperanto say first.

It would be like wanting to write a novel in English, except you don't have internet access, and your computer has cached the entirety of TV Tropes, but it's in Esperanto. You can still get the information you want, and it's still perfectly relevant to your situation, but it's going to take a little work.

 

[Shasarak]

It's magic. It can work however the designer wants it to work. My explanation is exactly as realistic as your explanation (i.e. zero percent).

I agree of course it can work how ever the designer wants it to work. It does not have to be logical at all. It does not have to be internally consistent. It does not even have to make narrative sense.

The only possible issue is if it was first established within canon that it worked one way, and then later on in the same continuity it works differently. If you have a story that starts in Pathfinder 1, and the same story is continued in Pathfinder 2, then you would need to address why the functionality is changed. It isn't something that Golarion has had to deal with before, as far as I know, but they always come up with a sufficient explanation when it happens in Faerun.

They did say that there were not going to be any "Realms Shaking Events" for Golarion but could be just PR spin.

It would be like wanting to write a novel in English, except you don't have internet access, and your computer has cached the entirety of TV Tropes, but it's in Esperanto. You can still get the information you want, and it's still perfectly relevant to your situation, but it's going to take a little work.

Using the internet to write a novel? I am not sure where to go using that analogy.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I agree of course it can work how ever the designer wants it to work. It does not have to be logical at all. It does not have to be internally consistent. It does not even have to make narrative sense..

Okay, so I guess the underlying question is, why don't you like the user-as-battery model of magic-item-design? It makes sense to me. There are plenty of examples of magic items working that way, elsewhere in games and fiction. There is a logic to it. It's internally consistent to itself, from what we've seen.

Is it just that it's different?

 

[Shasarak]

Okay, so I guess the underlying question is, why don't you like the user-as-battery model of magic-item-design? It makes sense to me. There are plenty of examples of magic items working that way, elsewhere in games and fiction. There is a logic to it. It's internally consistent to itself, from what we've seen.

Is it just that it's different?

I have gone over and over my problems with this new magical item limitation system.

If I was going to summarise the problem in a nut shell it is:

Resonance is a solution to a problem I dont have.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I have gone over and over my problems with this new magical item limitation system.

If I was going to summarise the problem in a nut shell it is:

Resonance is a solution to a problem I dont have.

Great! If you didn't have that problem under the old system, and you definitely won't have that problem under the new system, then why would you object? The new solution which works for everyone should be better than the old solution which only worked for some people.

I mean, aside from the failures in implementation (like extra bookkeeping in tracking both charges and Resonance), of course. The idea shouldn't be controversial at all, though.

 

[Shasarak]

Great! If you didn't have that problem under the old system, and you definitely won't have that problem under the new system, then why would you object? The new solution which works for everyone should be better than the old solution which only worked for some people.

I mean, aside from the failures in implementation (like extra bookkeeping in tracking both charges and Resonance), of course. The idea shouldn't be controversial at all, though.

Ok, so Resonance allows me to use 20 charges from my wand as well as 10 potions and then still be able to use my Elven cloak?

No? So then I do have a problem under the new system that I did not before.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Ok, so Resonance allows me to use 20 charges from my wand as well as 10 potions and then still be able to use my Elven cloak?

Ah, I see! So you did experience the issue, but you experienced it as a feature rather than a bug. And now they're patching out the whole issue, which may adversely affect your play experience.

That's very similar to how I felt, after playing Pathfinder for a little while, back in the day. I was always a big fan of the healing-resource-management game, and I enjoyed giving every character a little bit of healing so that they could be back to full within a few days, but then the Cure wands showed up and ruined my fun. There was no way to house rule the wands out of the community zeitgeist, so I was just left playing a game that wasn't as much fun as it could have been. I eventually came to the conclusion that Pathfinder just wasn't the right game for me, but I did have some fun along the way.

I guess that means Pathfinder 2 may not be the right game for you? I mean, you should definitely test it to be sure, and give feedback. It's hard to guess how many other testers might agree with you on this point. There's no reason to give up the fight just yet.

 

[Shasarak]

Ah, I see! So you did experience the issue, but you experienced it as a feature rather than a bug. And now they're patching out the whole issue, which may adversely affect your play experience.

No I did not experience "the issue". There was no issue. My character has magic items and he uses his magic items the way that magic items are supposed to be used.

If there was an issue then I am sure there must be some evidence of it somewhere? Anywhere? Hello?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

That's very similar to how I felt, after playing Pathfinder for a little while, back in the day. I was always a big fan of the healing-resource-management game, and I enjoyed giving every character a little bit of healing so that they could be back to full within a few days, but then the Cure wands showed up and ruined my fun. There was no way to house rule the wands out of the community zeitgeist, so I was just left playing a game that wasn't as much fun as it could have been. I eventually came to the conclusion that Pathfinder just wasn't the right game for me, but I did have some fun along the way.

What can I say man, if you dont like Wands of Healing then dont use Wands of Healing. You have to act like your forced to use them. I thought that you told me that Pathfinder was not balanced around being healed up to full after each fight?

I guess that means Pathfinder 2 may not be the right game for you? I mean, you should definitely test it to be sure, and give feedback. It's hard to guess how many other testers might agree with you on this point. There's no reason to give up the fight just yet.

Too early to say without all the facts. Maybe Resonance has just been really really badly explained, who knows.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

No I did not experience "the issue". There was no issue. My character has magic items and he uses his magic items the way that magic items are supposed to be used.

The issue is that you were loaded down with magical items as though your were some sort of holiday tree, and zapping wands like they were going out of style. It's an issue, whether or not you see it as a problematic one. Wands weren't intended to be used in such a capacity, which is why they're introducing this rule to change that.

What can I say man, if you dont like Wands of Healing then dont use Wands of Healing. You have to act like your forced to use them. I thought that you told me that Pathfinder was not balanced around being healed up to full after each fight?

It wasn't balanced around easy healing. That's just how everyone ended up playing, because the magic item rules were at odds with the encounter balance, and there was no use attempting to convince players not to exploit that. Pathfinder players are (generally speaking) unwilling to accept house rules, and if you don't like that, then the alternative is to not play.

 

[Shasarak]

The issue is that you were loaded down with magical items as though your were some sort of holiday tree, and zapping wands like they were going out of style. It's an issue, whether or not you see it as a problematic one. Wands weren't intended to be used in such a capacity, which is why they're introducing this rule to change that.
It wasn't balanced around easy healing. That's just how everyone ended up playing, because the magic item rules were at odds with the encounter balance, and there was no use attempting to convince players not to exploit that. Pathfinder players are (generally speaking) unwilling to accept house rules, and if you don't like that, then the alternative is to not play.

I think we have a pretty genial relationship on these forums, we agree on some stuff and disagree on other stuff but in general its all good. So in respect of that relationship I think that I will just have to agree to disagree at this point. I dont want to come off in a harsher tone then you deserve especially over something that neither of us has the full facts about.

I know that the Pathfinder developers have the best interests of the game at heart and am sure that they will take the playtest feedback seriously.