D&D (2024) Rest Variants (DMG pg. 267)

Have you used the Rest Variants in the DMG? What Did You Think?

  • I've used Epic Heroism, and I liked it

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • I've used Epic Heroism, and I neither liked nor disliked it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I've used Epic Heroism, and I didn't like it

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • I've used Gritty Realism, and I liked it

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • I've used Gritty Realism, and I neither liked nor disliked it

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • I've used Gritty Realism, and I didn't like it

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • I've used the Default Rules, and I like them

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • I've used the Default Rules, and I neither like nor dislike them

    Votes: 6 20.0%
  • I've used the Default Rules, and I didn't like them

    Votes: 8 26.7%
  • I use my own system (I'll describe it below)

    Votes: 11 36.7%

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
There is a lot of banter in the forums about Short Rests, Long Rests, and the rate of resource recovery in 5E D&D. There are a lot of strong opinions out there, for sure, but I get the impression that not many people are familiar with the optional rules for Rest Variants in the DMG.

For those who might not know, there are optional rules for Resting in the 5E Dungeon Master's Guide, page 267. If the default rules for Short Rests and Long Rests aren't working for your game, the DMG suggests two variants that you can use instead: Epic Heroism, and Gritty Realism.

Epic Heroism: a Short Rest is 5 minutes, and a Long Rest is 1 hour.
Default Rules: a Short Rest is 1 hour, and a Long Rest is 8 hours.
Gritty Realism: a short rest is 8 hours, and a Long Rest is 7 days.

Has anyone ever used the Rest Variants in the DMG? If so, what was your experience with them?
 

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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I've used Gritty a few years ago for a history-themed (Norse) campaign. It ran a couple of years, and it was a good time. It does make the healing and recovery feel a little more realistic.

Read that again. I worry that some people might misunderstand. I did not write, "Gritty Realism makes the game realistic." What I wrote was that it makes "the healing and recovery feel a little more realistic."

Needing a week to recover from a harrowing adventure makes sense for certain stories and certain settings. In our experience with the Gritty Realism variant, combat was a lot more dangerous, and all characters relied more heavily on non-magical resources to help them along. Fighters and Rogues really held the spotlight, and the party relied heavily on healing kits and the Healer feat instead of a "healbot" Cleric or Druid. Combat was more a matter of last resort, because it was so risky--especially after 2 or 3 battles.

Nowadays, we use a modified system (calling it a "house rule" is a bit of an overstatement, though.) We use the Default rules, but we have a table agreement that there will only be one Short Rest between each Long Rest. It works for us.
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
I use my own system, for several reasons.

• All rests are short rests! Sleeping well, enjoying a relaxing brunch, trancing for four hours, all of it gives the benefit of a Short Rest.

However

• Twice per LEVEL, a player can decide to change one of these rests into the benefit of a Long Rest for ones own character.

This benefit is a "deep rest", where the character feels unusually refreshed with second wind and a new lease on life.
 

I don't entirely understand the question, but not in the way you think I don't understand it.

These optional rules are designed to alter the play style and change the entire campaign's tone. Now, of course, these rules are too simple to fully effect the change they're claiming they make. They're too brief to do that. But they're a reasonable starting point for most tables that are looking for a different play experience. They do still change the tone of the campaign and the style of play at the table significantly.

Asking if I "like" or "dislike" these optional rules is asking what style of play I like, but, like a lot of online discussions on short rests, this feels like someone trying to sell gritty survival rules as a panacea to the twin problems of short-rest-reliant classes and the 6-8 adventuring day.

So it's asking people to conflate the rest and recovery system working well with a style of play they don't want to use. That's not useful. It's like telling people to play a different game. Worse, it ignores that WotC chose the default style of play that they did on purpose. D&D at the default rules is what WotC's market research has shown most tables want when they imagine D&D. Nothing else makes sense. If the game can't provide that midline style of play that the default rules are intended to provide, then the game is fundamentally broken. It's what the game fundamentally needs to be primarily designed for, and it's failing at that design. It's okay if gritty survival or epic heroism doesn't work that well because they're less popular, but it's unacceptable if the default rules fall apart. And that's precisely where we are.

People want the default style of play. But the short-rest-reliant classes don't work well, and the adventuring day designed to facilitate that design also doesn't work well. It was supposed to encourage short rests, but instead it just results in unhappy fighters, warlocks, and monks. Changing the rest schedule will force the PCs to short rest, but it does so by changing the style of play, which makes the entire table unhappy.

If your table loves it, great, but there's no reason to think that it's what everyone wants. It's not a solution. It's a workaround. One D&D is trying to provide a solution.

So, I don't understand the question. I don't understand why you're asking me to change my style of play -- which I don't want to do -- just because I've correctly identified that the short-rest-recovery system doesn't really work very well. It doesn't matter if it's a successful workaround, the results are still just as undesirable. It's not that I like or dislike the rules. It's that I can evaluate them well enough without even playing them to know that I'd rather have the broken default than the more functional gritty realism.

That seems to be an opinion shared by many other people because reducing short rest reliance has been a theme of the One D&D playtest. That means it's got to have been pretty significant in the annual system surveys they've been running for years.

I'd say that the short-rest Warlock has about as much chance of surviving into One D&D as the Warlord does of reappearing.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I don't entirely understand the question, but not in the way you think I don't understand it.

These optional rules are designed to alter the play style and change the entire campaign's tone. Now, of course, these rules are too simple to fully effect the change they're claiming they make. They're too brief to do that. But they're a reasonable starting point for most tables that are looking for a different play experience. They do still change the tone of the campaign and the style of play at the table significantly.
That was really not what I intended to ask. At all.

I just wanted to know if anyone has tried these variants, and how they felt about them, honest. Yes, they change the tone of the campaign and the style of play significantly, as you say...so did you try them anyway? and if so, did you like the change?

I'm not trying to justify the new warlock here (also, what?), I promise.
 

That was really not what I intended to ask. At all.

I just wanted to know if anyone has tried these variants, and how they felt about them, honest. Yes, they change the tone of the campaign and the style of play significantly, as you say...so did you try them anyway? and if so, did you like the change?

I'm not trying to justify the new warlock here (also, what?), I promise.

In that case, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

You started off with, "There is a lot of banter in the forums about Short Rests, Long Rests, and the rate of resource recovery in 5E D&D," and that's entirely the direction it looks like you were heading.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I've used the default, "gritty realism", & tried making changes to rests but only voted for the first two despite past attempts with the thirtd because the poll goes from used to use on the third . IME the way 5e is designed creates a situation that provides extreme resistance to making any meaningful changes to resting & recovery. Even with a halfbaked variant like "gritty realism" the GM is still put in a position of the players knowing that the GM probably won't TPK them for resting & has every reason to not be excited about throeing away their prep to build a whole new adventure on the fly . The trouble with 5e resting is that the entire thing is all or nothing, there is no rest & pray/study for N*10 minutes like 2e & there is no risk of ending the rest worse off than you started from attrition of HP & costly consumable resources (scrolls, wand charges, etc) like 3.x so the players hacve no reason not to simply go for broke & call the GM's bluff while taking yet another rest.

I have no idea what kind of munchkinized feverdream inspiration that epic heroism is built for but I don't think it's d&d or anything like it to the point that not even the epic level handbook seems to have anything like it.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I have no idea what kind of munchkinized feverdream inspiration that epic heroism is built for but I don't think it's d&d or anything like it to the point that not even the epic level handbook seems to have anything like it.
I know right? I've never played it, but "go nova every time you roll initiative" doesn't look like it would fit my playstyle.

I've read a handful of opinions about the Epic Heroism variant over the years, but I've never found anyone who has actually used it, though. (Including me. So...hoisted by my own petard, I guess?)
 

Night's sleep gives half hp, quarter hd
And short rest by default.

Short rest otherwise normal

Long rest needs 1 day of less stressful activity, which might include one or the other fight and searching dungeon rooms, but not overland travel and a halfway secure shelter.

So in a dungeon, you might be able to long rest each night. For overland travel, you need to take a day off. And suddenly long rest and short rest classes were balanced.
 

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