I quoted the relevant portion of your post I was addressing. And that portion was not talking about published adventures, but the rules themselves. You were pretty clear that you had two points, and they were that 1) the published adventures don't support X, and 2) the rules don't support X. So I quoted you the second point about the rules you appear to have missed. And now you're saying you didn't mention that second point about rules, despite my quoting you directly? And you're doing it in response to someone quoting my response to you, rather than directly to me?
There is no need to be testy about it. I reserve the right to respond to a post without checking up who started a particular subthread.
That I brought the rules into the discussion was to show how DMs are left to their own devices. And now I'm talking about DMs that run published campaigns. They read the DMG too.
That the rulebook dicusses the issue is to no help when you don't write adventures yourself. The writer whose work you buy is supposed to have read that stuff.
Besides, for all its discussion there is still next to zero actual enforcement mechanisms.
Oh no, you just punted one of the two points you were making when someone actually addressed that point. I can start to address your other point next, but first I wanted to establish your rules point was incorrect.
So now that we have addressed that the rules do in fact directly deal with this issue in the DMG, which adventure are you referring to that does not support this issue?
Don't try to hardline me, Mistwell - you know I won't buckle.
You don't get to misinterpret my mention of the rules to say my points are incorrect. I have never said the DMG is devoid of adventure writing advice. I am saying there is little to no enforcement in the rules as a whole, and that there are more rules that work against enforcement than toward it.
The rules don't get away with hundreds of pages that ignore the issue, and then simply writing a few paragraphs that off-load the burden on the DM (or adventure writer). Where are the actual enforcement variants?
Tell you what, I happen to have Princes of the Apocalypse handy, so let's start there.
Please do. It's possible it is enforcing rests to a much higher level than the other modules.
Once the PCs are done in town the first adventure starts on page 29, which references the DMG chapter 5 (that's the section I was quoting above), and then page 30. Not coincidentally, page 30 starts with "Random Encounters" and calls for four random encounter checks each day (and some of them are quite difficult).
Thank you. But are you sure you're discussing mid- to high level content here? (You could be, I'm just reminding you low-level content is generally fine even without much enforcement)
And how do you know when a Random Encounter is supposed to happen relative to where the adventurers are at? DMG Chapter 5, starting with page 85, Random Encounters, "Create Urgency" and "Drain Character Resources" followed by "Triggering Random Encounters" which specifies, for example, that the characters have stopped for a short or long rest.
The adventure is peppered with references to checking for random encounters throughout, adjusting the check frequency accordingly. For example, page 54, "Random Encounters. Characters lingering in the castle yard are likely to encounter various denizens of Rivergard going about their business. Check for random encounters once per 5 minutes during the day or once per 15 minutes at night." Similarly on page 68 in the Mines "Check for random encounters once per hour. "
This does seem to be a magnitude more involved enforcement than Strahd or Abyss. Thank you.
Later the adventure sets up a series of special counterattacks. Starting on page 76, "If the characters try to camp in any of the four temples while its elemental prophet is still alive, the prophet gathers reinforcements and sends them to attack the intruding party...Likewise, it isn’t safe to camp in a cleared Haunted Keep. The elemental prophets divine the characters’ location and send forces to harass the party. Small bands of cult raiders and mercenaries roam the Sumber Hills, so it’s a simple matter to order one such group to attack the characters at one of the Haunted Keeps. (See the “Random Encounters” section in chapter 2.)" It further describes additional retaliation, "As the party continues the assault on cult strongholds in Tyar-Besil, the elemental prophets look for ways to hit back hard, using their devastation orbs. The timing of these retaliatory encounters coincides with the party’s progress in overcoming the four temple complexes." Then further on that same page under "Reckless Hate" there is another rest-interrupting attack, "While the characters rest, trouble arrives on their doorstep." The next page, under "Warning" describes another interrupted sleep.
It gets worse from there. Page 82 has random encounter checks every 10 minutes. Page 85 has a random encounter every time the characters travel the main connecting path; not a random encounter check, but a guaranteed random encounter every single time. Page 86 has further hourly checks, page 93 has a random encounter on a roll of 1-6 on a d20 every time the characters pass through that area, page 101 has the same but on a 1-8, page 124 has a disrupting environmental effect on a roll of 11-20, page 128 has random encounter checks every 10 minutes, Page 135 every 30 minutes, Page 138 specifies a room specifically for a random encounter, Page 142 has random encounter checks every 30 minutes, etc..
And none of this even tries to count the number of intentional multi-part encounters.
Excellent. Now, what are your thoughts about Tyranny, Abyss, Strahd, Thunder and Yawning? Would you say Princes is typical or atypical?
So yes, when you use the DMG rules (which the adventure references) on how to use the random encounters the adventure references and the time frames and types and frequency of checks the adventure references, you should not be finding much issue with this problem using this published adventure. The rules address the issue, and the publish adventure uses those rules to address the issue.
This is exactly what I want, yes.
The better question at that point is why is your DM not using those tools the rules and the adventure supplies to address this issue? Are you guys just never encountering multi-part encounters and random encounters while resting like the rules and the published adventure provide for?
Not sure what you mean. I'm the DM but I haven't run Princes. I started this thread because I haven't come across a 5th edition adventure anywhere near this level of attention poured on the question of rest restriction and ways to meet the 6-8 encounter expectation.
So Princes get an OK from you. That's great to hear! Any other WotC 5e modules you'd like to share info on? Or do you concede my point that this stuff is mostly absent from the edition, even though it's more central to balance than ever?
