Restricted schools / disciplines and artifacts

[ChimericDream]

According to the SRD:

...choosing a discipline also means that the psion cannot learn powers that are restricted to other disciplines. He can’t even use such powers by employing psionic items.

and

Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands.

Now, reading this, I realize the RAW answer to my question is "no". However, I was curious what others had did in their games.

Would you allow a character to use spells or powers from an artifact? The premise would sort of be that they were not normally able to use certain powers from "regular" magic items, but were able to use all the powers of the artifact normally.

The specific reason for this question stems from the fact that psions *must* specialize, therefore giving up access to a fair number of powers. Considering the power level of psionics, this is something I (as DM) am perfectly fine with. However, in my mind artifacts have always been things of wonder, bending the rules of the univers (and the game) or sometimes even breaking them. That's why they're artifacts.

 

[Nifft]

Psion "specialization" is entirely different than Wizard specialization.

Psions each gain a list of special powers they can learn in addition to the main powers on the general Psion/Wilder list. Psions can learn any power on the general list, and also powers from their Discipline list.

Wizard specialists, on the other hand, can't learn any spells from their barred schools.

Basically: Psions expand their class power list by (forced) specialization, while Wizards reduce their class spell list by (optional) specialization.

- - -

However, I think you're asking a different question. Many items allow you to use spells. Unless the item is a spell-trigger (e.g. Wand, Staff, Dorje) or spell-completion (e.g. Scroll, Imprint Stone) item, the ability to cast or manifest the spell or power is irrelevant.

I don't know of any artifacts which are spell-completion or spell-trigger items. Which one are you thinking of?

Cheers, -- N

 

[ChimericDream]

The specific item I was looking at is the Psicrown of the Crystal Mind. Since it's the psionic equivalent of a staff, it would seem to me that it's a power-trigger item, and therefore follows the usual restrictions. However, taking into consideration that it's an artifact, this makes the case a little more "gray".

 

[UltimaGabe]

Would you allow a character to use spells or powers from an artifact? The premise would sort of be that they were not normally able to use certain powers from "regular" magic items, but were able to use all the powers of the artifact normally.

The specific reason for this question stems from the fact that psions *must* specialize, therefore giving up access to a fair number of powers. Considering the power level of psionics, this is something I (as DM) am perfectly fine with. However, in my mind artifacts have always been things of wonder, bending the rules of the univers (and the game) or sometimes even breaking them. That's why they're artifacts.

Would you allow a Fighter to use a Staff of the Magi? Or, a more reasonable comparison- would you allow a Beguiler to use the Ray of Enfeeblement spell from a Staff of the Magi?

They may be spellcasters that cast the same types of spells as the item in question, but that's it. If it isn't a spell or power they can cast, class restrictions or not, they can't use it. Think of it from a flavor standpoint- if a Wizard chose to never learn how to cast any Transmutation spells, and therefore couldn't even activate a low-powered transmutation scroll, how in the world would he be able to come up with the knowhow to activate an artifact-powered item that calls for the same knowledge? If anything, the repurcussions for trying to activate it would be far, far worse.

Will it break your game if you allow him to activate it? Probably not. Would I? Not entirely as written. If the player really, really wanted to activate it, and he or I could come up with a suitable trade-off or flavor explanation as to why he was able to, I probably would come up with a way. But in most cases, it'd be just as off-limits as a Fighter trying to use it the Staff of the Magi.

 

[Nifft]

The specific item I was looking at is the Psicrown of the Crystal Mind. Since it's the psionic equivalent of a staff, it would seem to me that it's a power-trigger item, and therefore follows the usual restrictions. However, taking into consideration that it's an artifact, this makes the case a little more "gray".

Looks like there are a lot of different powers in that sucker, so it would be pretty useful for any manifester, but fully useful to very few.

It seems to be a pretty fair selection of powers, though: one from most every special Discipline list. Telepaths have two, Seers get the shaft, but that's par for the course.

If you want this particular Artifact to behave unlike a regular Psicrown, it wouldn't be particularly broken, IMHO. The powers aren't all that great, and the power point recovery is really slow.

Cheers, -- N