D&D (2024) Rests should be dropped. Stop conflating survival mechanics with resource recovery.

[mamba]

They should play DCC if they want a game that feels like DND.

how about we play D&D for that?

 

[mamba]

The gains are too huge & any actual risk almost entirely relies on the GM invoking GM fiat or rocks fall type scenarios.

or just wake you via wandering monsters, and keep doing it until you get the hint that this is not the right place to rest.

I agree that stuff like tiny hut makes avoiding this scenario much too easy however

 

[mamba]

There is no DM hording the privilege of gathering over the players. They can do it if they're travelling, period.

good thing it uses a resource that grows in the jungles of Chult, the frozen lands around Icewind Dale, the deeps of the Underdark, and pretty much any other climate you can think of…

Ultimately it is under the control of the DM how much of it there is in the game world, but under control of the players when they want to make use of their supply

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[mamba]

Depends on the resource, and I wouldn't include refining myself; Id assume that as part of the crafting process if it isn't explicitly already in there. (In my system, smelting and tanning is assumed as part of crafting martial weapons and armor, as is spinning and carving for their magical counterparts).

Farmville, the TTRPG

 

[tetrasodium]

or just wake you via wandering monsters, and keep doing it until you get the hint that this is not the right place to rest.

I agree that stuff like tiny hut makes avoiding this scenario much too easy however

"but we've been taking watch cycles why are we being railroaded like puppets without getting to react to those? What were the monsters? can we skin the monsters?"

 

[Emberashh]

yes, you had your tension pool. No matter how you slice and dice it, you removed resources as one (large) component of attrition however

Not at all. The resource is just more universal.

wait, so you still sleep / rest, then why remove it as a recharge mechanic?

Survival should be optional. I said this twice.

ok, I am not seeing a functional difference here, only semantics

Then, as said, you're not getting what Im saying and should ask questions that demonstrate you're engaging what Ive already said on the subject.

There is a massive functional difference between a universal resource and arbitrary shut offs tied to every individual ability.

how about we play D&D for that?

If you want a game that feels like DND, DCC is the game that does that.

Ultimately it is under the control of the DM how much of it there is in the game world

Not in the new system. As said, more than once, this is not about just dropping rests and doing nothing else.

Farmville, the TTRPG

Well that does explain why you're behaving as you have been. You hate crafting systems and instead of just letting it be you'd rather vent your hate against people who don't hate it.

 

[Emberashh]

"but we've been taking watch cycles why are we being railroaded like puppets without getting to react to those? What were the monsters? can we skin the monsters?"

Sometimes I think its like people selectively decide to act like theres never been huge internet arguments over how bad and railroadey interrupting rests feels.

Thats where things like safe haven rules came from in the zeitgeist, trying to bridge the gap between players who hate knowing they're just being interrupted arbitrarily and DMs who don't have any other means to enforce attrition if players are abusing rests.

 

[Deadstop]

Yeah I'd prefer just encounter powers and dailies. I think it's also easier to balance around.

I also think that after a fight the PCs should only need a couple of minutes to use as many hit dice as they want to heal up. It's a limited resource so it can't be abused, and it takes pressure of magical healing (something I dislike in D&D, but that's another matter).

Note that 4e encounter powers and dailies (the source of that terminology in the D&D lineage) actually were short/extended rest recovery, with short enough short rests that you were assumed to do one after every fight.

And while I misinterpreted Basic D&D's per-day spells as "they literally just pop back after 24 hours, or maybe at sunrise" when I was 10, most older editions specified that a night's sleep was needed before memorizing/preparing spells. Resting to recover resources has always been a thing in D&D, just not always called out as a mechanic with a name like short/long rest.

 

[tetrasodium]

Sometimes I think its like people selectively decide to act like theres never been huge internet arguments over how bad and railroadey interrupting rests feels.

Thats where things like safe haven rules came from in the zeitgeist, trying to bridge the gap between players who hate knowing they're just being interrupted arbitrarily and DMs who don't have any other means to enforce attrition if players are abusing rests.

Yea that's the difference between the old 2e style & 5e. When the GM said "You guys were hoping to rest for ... six hours was it?... the first [dice clatter] 2 went ok, but pretty quick the watch that Alice & bob were taking saw clear that the locals caught your scent & it's not safe to push for more" was just a quick turnaround with "cool so that gives Cindy/Dave that gives you a good chunk of spells back right? like 12 levels worth? Cindy can you use some of that twelve levels worth of spells* healing Alice?".

Even in 3.x where you needed "a good night's sleep" plus one hour of studying (or mostly similar from class to class/prc) to get spells back & a level based number of HP per day it wasn't as bad interrupting one because consumables like wands & scrolls were the norm for various unrelated reasons & allowed for scraping along when low at some cost.

Spoiler: *The relevant 2e rules

• PHB107
  "Memorization is not a thing that happens immediately. The wizard must have a clear head gained from a restful night’s sleep and then has to spend time studying his spell books. The amount of study time needed is 10 minutes per level of the spell being memorized. Thus, a 9th-level spell (the most powerful) would require 90 minutes of careful study. Clearly, high-level spellcasters do not lightly change their memorized spells."
• PHB111
  "Priests must pray to obtain spells, as they are requesting their abilities from some greater power, be it their deity or some intermediary agent of this power. The conditions for praying are identical to those needed for the wizard’s studying."
• PHB81
  " Healing: A character proficient in healing knows how to use natural medicines and basic principles of first aid and doctoring. If the character tends another within one round of wounding (and makes a successful proficiency check), his ministrations restore 1d3 hit points (but no more hit points can be restored than were lost in the previous round). Only one healing attempt can be made on a character per day.
  If a wounded character remains under the care of someone with healing proficiency, that character can recover lost hit points at the rate of 1 per day even when traveling or engaging in nonstrenuous activity. If the wounded character gets complete rest, he can recover 2 hit points per day while under such care. Only characters with both healing and herbalism proficiencies can help others recover at the rate of 3 hit points per day of rest. This care does not require a proficiency check, only the regular attention of the proficient character. Up to six patients can be cared for at any time."