D&D (2024) Rests should be dropped. Stop conflating survival mechanics with resource recovery.

[Emberashh]

Right! Tradition is the ONLY reason that rest restores energy resources. You should test that out immediately by never going to sleep again and instead drinking lots of potions(Monster, Rockstar, etc.). Let us know how that works out.

You say this like you're not in the minority of people (including myself) who actually like survival mechanics and would care about our fictional characters bowel movements.

the only RPGs that I know of that do this are video games.

Yes.

Wait! So now you can get the energy resource even if you rest in the middle of a hurricane? Does resting work to restore energy or not?

You're taking that out of context, deliberately.

 

[Maxperson]

No one said resting can't still be a thing, just not the thing.

If only(Sorcery Points) there were(Arcane Recovery) a way(Pearl of Power) other than rest(Ring of Spell Storing) to have extra spellcasting(Rod of Absorbtion) without resting..

 

[Maxperson]

You say this like you're not in the minority of people (including myself) who actually like survival mechanics and would care about our fictional characters bowel movements.

I don't even know what you mean by this. What minority and how do you know it's a minority?

Yes.

That's a problem. If I wanted to play a video game RPG(which is barely deserving of the acronym) instead of a real sit down RPG I would.

You're taking that out of context, deliberately.

Rest gives back energy which is a resource. Tying spell and hit point recovery to rest very much retains verisimilitude. Getting rid of it destroys verisimilitude.

 

[Maxperson]

Time. An arrow is faster than a chugging arm. A spell even faster. You might even already be in the process of being stabbed.

So now you want to rewrite the entire combat system so that different actions take different amounts of time and allow you to be interrupted by faster attack types?

 

[Maxperson]

Sure but I think that @Emberashh is making a different point. Can you sleep off getting shot by that .50cal with 8 hours of sleep someplace like. say...The NSC where you only get stabbed a bunch then go to Gruinard_Island & take an 8 hour rest to regrow your melted organs?

Yes actually you can. Hit points are not getting shot. So if I were to experience a real life hit point loss via gunfire, it would look like a near miss that freaked me out and left me shaking until I got enough rest to calm down. Or it would look like a graze that freaks me out and leaves a need for a band-aid. 8 hours is plenty of time for that.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Those obnoxious safe haven rules are awful and is just a flipside of the coin of unimmersive mechanics.

While you're not wrong...I'd point out that MANY mechanics are non immersive.

I'm sure I've been ninja'd - it's a 10 page thread at this point.

 

[Carlsen Chris]

Its high time to abandon it. Its dumb and the pearl clutchers can be ignored.

The best solutions to fixing the problems with rest involve limiting when they can be used, which in turn just causes a verisimilitude problem. Those obnoxious safe haven rules are awful and is just a flipside of the coin of unimmersive mechanics.

Survival ultimately should be an all or nothing option. Either you go all the way or you don't do it at all, and the desperate clinging to rests just holds the game down. Let it go.

An energy system like Mana or Stamina works better all around and is a lot easier to balance around, and it can work no matter what kind of campaign or module is being run. From Marvel esque romps to nitty gritty horror and anything inbetween. And, best part, no arguing.

Have a potion? Your loss if you decide to use it at a bad time. No wasted time trying to negotiate for what amount of time we're going to skip for arbitrary reasons.

It's high time this "immersion" crap is ignored. What a vague and useless concept that is cited by many and understood by no one.

 

[Emberashh]

Tying spell and hit point recovery to rest very much retains verisimilitude.

No one said it didn't.

Getting rid of it destroys verisimilitude.

No it doesn't.

So now you want to rewrite the entire combat system so that different actions take different amounts of time and allow you to be interrupted by faster attack types?

Thats neither here nor there.

While you're not wrong...I'd point out that MANY mechanics are non immersive.

Sure, but this is one that affects the gameplay rather dramatically and in a way that doesn't disappear into the background noise.

Having to drop everything and trudge back to a town or some other arbitrary point, just so that then you could go through the resting process, interrupts the game and makes the reality that resting doesn't require "safe havens" unignorable.

Swigging potions meanwhile, which already exists in DND, lets be clear, only causes this problem if it becomes apparent that no one has actually slept for however long.

But theres two things that have to be considered about that scenario. First, as said earlier, nothing says meaningful rest mechanics and potions cannot coexist. They are not mutually exclusive.

And second, any table thats bothered by that should already be bothered by their characters not having eaten, showered, or groomed themselves an indeterminate time.

And if they aren't, then where on earth is this hypothetical table located that doesn't give a rats ass about survival but suddenly can't cope with their characters not sleeping?

This is still a game no matter how realistic you make it, and the point of all this is for DND to embrace that and to stop pretending it isn't a game. Make survival fully optional, and in the process make a better foundation for game balance than a wishy washy system that can be changed to different extremes and only barely affect the game at all.

It's high time this "immersion" crap is ignored. What a vague and useless concept that is cited by many and understood by no one.

The irony being if course that Im not arguing for the immersive choice. Bringing up immersion is an acknowledgement of the problems people have with rest systems, particularly ones that have to finagle nonsensical add ons like safe havens to make the game work properly.

 

[Maxperson]

Thats neither here nor there.

Correct. It's everywhere. If you have to basically change D&D into something else in order to handle your change, it's probably a change that shouldn't happen. You'd need a completely different game to handle your potion change. A video game for instance.

The irony being if course that Im not arguing for the immersive choice. Bringing up immersion is an acknowledgement of the problems people have with rest systems, particularly ones that have to finagle nonsensical add ons like safe havens to make the game work properly.

No one does, though. If you do, it's your(general you) own fault for setting things up that way.

 

[Emberashh]

If you have to basically change D&D into something else in order to handle your change, it's probably a change that shouldn't happen

You are vastly overstating this.

No one does, though.

Right because Im just imagining the countless people Ive interacted with online and in real life, including at my own table, that have implemented those rules and run into that exact issue.