Retailer's Stance on PDF Deals

[Dire Bare]

I can't help but think that somebody at WotC* is cackling in mad delight at the discord they're creating. *=not the whole company, just somebody.

Sure, there is the evil overlord residing in the bowels of WotC's office complex, donning his dark robes, twirling his mustache, evilly grinning at all the chaos he has sowed purely for the sake of chaos . . . .

Sheesh.

 

[Mark]

Sure, there is the evil overlord residing in the bowels (. . .)

Why are they always in the bowels . . ?

 

[jdrakeh]

Scott Roberts, being all reasonable and stuff.

Thanks for weighing in the here and bringing some sound retailer perspective to the table.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Why are they always in the bowels . . ?

Because other words for bowels will not get past the filter...... lol

 

[darjr]

You, sir, own an LGS I would go to. Great business model ideas! I wish going print on demand on site was more affordable for you, that would be super cool!

I agree wholeheartedly. WotC, Paizo, others? I hope you've read this.

 

[Polyhedral_Columbia]

Threefold Social Organism for the World of RPGs

I would like to see the RPG designers, the RPG distributors, and the RPG customers each form an Association or Guild that operates via contractual pre-purchase and shared risk. The RPG designers, distributors, and customers would no longer be at the mercy of sheer supply and demand. The customers would get the product they want, including both mainline RPG products and specialty RPG items. And the RPG writers and artists would be working in creative freedom -- the managers of their Association would be RPG writers and artists with managerial talent, rather than non-gamer corporate types. All the workers -- both designers and retailers -- would receive a full livelihood.

The RPG Patron Association would be a consumer organisation that would negotiate a contract with the RPG Designers Association as to what products will be produced for the period of that contract (such as a year). Individual RPG Customers would buy a "share" in the RPG "produce" for that year. There'd be different cost levels of "buy-ins". All members would have an actual vote in the affairs of the Patron Assocation, such as voting who'd represent the Assocation in their contract negotations with the Designers and Distributors.

The RPG Distributors Association would be made of both brick-and-mortar and PDF distributors. This Association's job would be to bring the product into the hands of the customers. This Association would have a contract with the other two Associations. The price of RPG products would be determined by a conscious calculation of how much it actually costs to support a dignified livelihood for the Designers and the Distributors -- rather than "what is the greatest amount of money we can get from the customer".

The RPG Designers Association would be a guild made of any and all professional RPG game designers, developers, and artists. This Assocation would make the games. It'd be something like the Screen Actors Guild -- if the SAG artists were in charge of making the movies instead of faceless production companies.

The concept is being applied in the Community Supported Agriculture movement, and is described in Rudolf Steiner's Threefold Social Organism. Within this tripartite "RPG production, distribution, and patronage organism", RPGs would be produced in freedom, by men and women who are enthusiastic about RPGs.

Travis

 

[jgbrowning]

The concept is being applied in the Community Supported Agriculture movement

Hrm... as someone who's involved in Community Supported Agriculture I'd never thought about such a model in the RGP industry. Hrm.

joe b.

 

[gamersgambit]

I would like to see the RPG designers, the RPG distributors, and the RPG customers each form an Association or Guild that operates via contractual pre-purchase and shared risk. The RPG designers, distributors, and customers would no longer be at the mercy of sheer supply and demand. The customers would get the product they want, including both mainline RPG products and specialty RPG items. And the RPG writers and artists would be working in creative freedom -- the managers of their Association would be RPG writers and artists with managerial talent, rather than non-gamer corporate types. All the workers -- both designers and retailers -- would receive a full livelihood.

**snipped**

Often, like communism, good ideas don't translate well into good realities.

The first problem with this is that of the Distributors, the middlemen between the publishers and the retailer. As a game store owner, I rely on them greatly, primarily because they give me terms. I order something; I don't actually pay for it until 30 days afterwards (this is one of the reasons Wizards isn't my direct distributor, because they insist on COD). If product A that I bought doesn't sell, I can usually make up the cost I paid for it by selling product B, thus allowing me to pay my bills. Ordering up front, on the other hand, is a problem.

Now this is what distributors do for me, and they have drawbacks as well--one distribution house, Alliance/Diamond, has made monopolistic deals with certain manufacturers (Days of Wonder, the makers of Ticket to Ride, stands out)--I can't buy their products from anyone BUT Alliance. Moreover, I am restricted by what my distributor chooses to carry. But the 30 day terms more than make up for that. My distributor also tells me what sells and what doesn't in other stores; they're a clearinghouse for such information; and they're positively motivated not to lie to me just to make a sale, because they rely on my repeat business.

More than that, though, there's a big difference between creative works and agricultural produce. If there's a larger demand for X (say, WOTC products) than there is for Y (say, Savage Worlds products), as it stands now, Y simply won't be produced or distributed. Moreover, you are presuming a desire on the part of the purchasers of this product en masse to be involved. One of the reasons Community Supported Agriculture works is as a widespread backlash against agribusiness and a perceptive belief that organic/local/fresh = GOOD/BETTER than picking up some apples at a Pathmark or A&P. The same motivation on the part of RPG consumers isn't the case, nor is it likely to be anytime soon.

 

[phloog]

Hmm..

First looking at that ludicrous statement about trying a physical copy before buying a PDF...nonsense. I want a real example of a person who does that because I don't know of any.

Next - I'm not sure if this is true for the stores that are complaining, but if I wanted to try and employ this strategy at the closest FLGS to me, I could go there and pick up the 4e books for my free 'feel', or a few of the White Wolfs, and maybe some Shadowrun...then I'd be done....

No Savage Worlds, little to no GURPS, no cool little cottage industry RPGs that you used to find at these places.

For me to have a real selection of anything beyond the most mainstream of products, I need to drive an hour out of state to the Griffon Bookstore in Indiana (I'm in SW Michigan)

So...unless I do that, if I want a free feel I can just go to Barnes and Noble, because as it currently stands these gaming stores don't take risks, so they don't stock much that you can't buy (or just feel) at a major chain bookseller.

I'm all for supporting local game stores, but it seems like many may be doomed because all they stock are things I can get anywhere else....again, that may be just the way my own region of the country goes.

 

[El Mahdi]

Because other words for bowels will not get past the filter...... lol

Man, that's just crap!

Not to slow down the motility of this thread too much, but ...

... if the filter is that restrictive, well that just stinks.

May as well just flush all expectations of free and open communication.