Rethinking Reflex and AC...

[breschau]

According to this photo from XP:

When you wear light armor, you add either your Intelligence or your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class, whichever is higher. Heavy armor is more restrictive, so your natural agility matters less. When you wear heavy armor, you don't add an ability score modifier to your AC.

At the far edge of the page is the shield text, the last bit is interesting:

Shields grant a shield bonus that you add to your AC and to your...

The assumption was that shields only gave a bonus to Reflexes. Assuming shields grant a bonus to Reflex then heavy shields grant a +2 bonus, judging from the pregens.

If Small size is still +1, judging from the pregens we know that plate is then +7 AC (+1 size, +2 shield). It was assumed before that AC is Reflex Defense plus armor. Considering the above text, we know that's false.

Chainmail is therefore +6 AC (heavy armor = no bonus and no shield on the cleric, easy). But, scale is +7 AC (heavy armor = no bonus w/ +2 from shield, no size bonus).

The trouble is then that scale and plate would offer the same protection. When the plate text clearly stats that "plate provides the most armor protection." From the order of listing and text we can assume that they should offer more protection, in the order listed.

Chain +6, scale +7, plate +8 is what I think it will be.

EDIT: One of two assumptions must be true; either the size bonus was left off of the halfling's AC or size no longer offers an AC bonus. I think the former is far more likely.

 

[fafhrd]

Perhaps size doesn't modify AC and your armor values are correct.
EDIT: the sheets have been corrected and Corrin's AC is still 20.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I'm still wondering about Hide vs. Leather armor too. It would make sense if Hide was better than Leather, but both seem to be +3 AC...

 

[Falling Icicle]

I wonder if there is any reason to wear chainmail instead of plate, if you're proficient with both?

 

[Snarls-at-Fleas]

Maybe Hide and Plate give a bonus to Fort?

 

[OakwoodDM]

Perhaps size doesn't modify AC and your armor values are correct.
EDIT: the sheets have been corrected and Corrin's AC is still 20.

The other option is maybe the size bonus to AC is there, but only applies when not in heavy armour...

 

[Mentat55]

I wonder if there is any reason to wear chainmail instead of plate, if you're proficient with both?

From the halfling paladin's character sheet, it looks like plate armor grants +8 to AC, and a -4 penalty to Acrobatics, Athletics, and Stealth checks (and the halfling appears to get a +2 racial bonus to Acrobatics).

From the human cleric, we find chainmail is +6 armor, -1 penalty. Similarly, the scale armor on the dwarf fighter seems to give +7 armor, -2 penalty. So the trade-off is more AC, but penalties to Acrobatics, Athletics, and Stealth checks (and any other skills not shown that may be affected by armor).

 

[ShinRyuuBR]

Its quite clear that cloth is +0, leather +2, hide +3, chainmail +6 (-2 to Acrobatics, Athletics & Stealth), scale +7 (-2 to skills) and plate +8 (-4 to skills). Small size gives no bonuses to hit or AC. Cloth, leather and hide are light armor and allow either Dex or Int to AC; chainmail, scale and plate are heavy armor and don't allow ability modifiers to AC. Heavy shield gives +2 to AC and Reflexes and don't penalize skills.

 

[Andur]

Problem I see, is why would anyone want to wear heavy armor, epecially chain or scale?

Hide +3, 1st level twink can start with a +5 Dex bonus, still carry a shield and be equal to the Plate wearer. Now let's go two attribute increases later and now this Hide wearer is getting an additional +1 to his AC over the plate wearer (assuming ROUNDDOWN(CHARLVL/2) does effect AC) and the it just gets worse over time. Take this to a Wizard, make it INT instead of DEX and well there really is nothing that gets close. You are maxing both your main DEFENSIVE attribute and OFFENSIVE attribute at the same time.

Hopefully either the armour "scales" or classes which traditionally rely on heavy armour get some sort of bonus.

Course could just get rid of AC altogether, have most weapon attacks go against REF and have armour offer resistance...

 

[Valdrax]

I'm still wondering about Hide vs. Leather armor too. It would make sense if Hide was better than Leather, but both seem to be +3 AC...

I was wondering about this too. I was actually thinking of starting a new thread about it, but I guess I'll just second this question here.

Why are Hide & Leather separate classes of armor if they grant the same bonus (and are largely made of the same class of materials)?

Its quite clear that cloth is +0, leather +2, hide +3, chainmail +6 (-2 to Acrobatics, Athletics & Stealth), scale +7 (-2 to skills) and plate +8 (-4 to skills).

Could you explain that math, especially with respect to leather armor?

I seems pretty clear that the Half-Elf Warlock gets +2 AC from Int and +3 from Leather.