Rethinking the 3-Book Model

[am181d]

On the other hand, the "I want my dragonborn dammit" people are largely players who want the PH to say "these are the options available to you as a player; tell your DM you're playing a dragonborn."

I can see it now:

Player: "But the PHB says I can play whatever race I want, and the DM has no choice but to accept it!"

DM: "I don't use that rule."

 

[Crazy Jerome]

4 books, following roughly the BECMI RC + AD&D model:

• Core book - single book with core system plus a few of the mainstream options, capable of running a handful of classes and races, everything you need, similar to BECMI RC, to max level. Information not repeated in books below.
• PHB - more classes, more races, more feats, more spells, more (mundane or very common magic) equipment, more player rules options.
• DMG - more advice, more traps, more magic items, more examples, more campaign building tools, more rules options.
• MM - more monsters, more monster rules options.

PHB/DMG/MM are "more, more, more!" of what is already in the single book. I think that will lead to books of roughly equal size, while keeping the information in the core book relatively simple but robust. With that core information out of the way, the traditional trilogy can then focus on providing what their titles say.

Moreover, this solves a big sales issue in that now two of the four main books are ones that dedicated players might want--but does so while allowing people on a budget to readily get by with one book.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I really like the classic 1 DMG, 1 PHB and multiple MM approach

 

[Ratskinner]

I know it may not be popular, but I like the idea of there being a "basic" D&D presented in the "core" and in the Beginner's "Red Box" of some kind, maybe even a Cyclopedia handling that game. That way, the "Advanced" books could be larger and contain more crunch modules.

I don't like the idea of putting it all in one big book...I mean...that book would be absolutely frackin' huge by the time all the modules got stuffed in there! What I'm really not sure about, is how to divide into "core" and "not core", and how to organize additional "splat" material. I'd like to point to TSR's 2e era for this....but that didn't work out too well for them.

I would like to humbly suggest that the PHB and DMG reduce their "* List" chapters. (Where * equals "Spell", "Equipment", "Magic Item", or "Martial Maneuvers".) I don't like reading database output, and I'd be fine buying supplemental catalogs of such things, or seeing them thematically enhanced in flavorful splatbooks.

Oo! Also, the basic game should only go up to level 10, since people seem to disagree so fundamentally on what high-level play should be.

 

[Croesus]

I predict it won't happen, but I would love to see WOTC produce a "lite" rule book similar to Hero Games 6E Basic Rulebook or 5E Sidekick. These books don't have the full ruleset, but they have enough for a player to create and run a character. They are lighter, smaller, easier to pass around at the table when someone needs to look something up. For both 5E and 6E, I purchased one set of core books, plus several of the basic books to loan out or pass around.

If WOTC produces a basic rulebook, I really won't care too much how they present the entire rules - 1 book, 3 books, whatever. And if I can get the optional splats in PDF, so I can just print the modules my group use, I'll be very pleased.

 

[CleverNickName]

I want a two-book model: A Player's Sourcebook and a DM's Guide. One has all of the info that you need to be a player, and the other has all of the info that you need to be a DM. That was the way they did it with the red-box Basic Set, and it has always been my favorite.

If I can't have that, I would prefer everything to be condensed into a single 300-something page book, like they did with the Rules Cyclopedia.

If I were king, that is how it would be done.

 

[am181d]

I kind of like how Essentials handled it:

A light, portable Rules Compendium.
A separate book (or books) for Character Gen.
A boxed set with DM stuff for DMs.
A boxed set with Monsters and stuff for DMs.

Alternatively, if they want to get away from "stuff" in 5e, they could just release all of the books in the smaller Rules Compendium size.

 

[Wiseblood]

I was going to post this over at the "Should magic items be in the PH" thread, but decided it wasn't really on-topic and decided to start a new thread instead.

The "traditional" 3-book model is one Player's Handbook, one Dungeon Master's Guide (which also contains traps, hazards and magic items) and one Monster Manual.

I wonder if a better approach might be to take out the information on traps, hazards, magic items, etc. and put it together with the information on monsters into a separate "Homebrewer's Guide" (there may be a better name). Into that book would also go the advice on encounter design, adventure design (including allocation of treasure and magic items), campaign design and world design.

What would be left in the DMG would be generic DM advice on running the game and engaging and interacting with the players, and maybe a sample dungeon which a beginning DM could use to practice his game-running skills. (So there would be a small number of monsters and treasure in the DMG - those in the sample dungeon.)

The real advantage to this approach (from my perspective) is that we slash the size of the DMG so that it doesn't look so intimidating for a beginning DM - it actually looks possible to sit down, read through and absorb the information inside within a reasonable period of time. A second advantage is that we separate the role of the DM as designer from the role of the DM as referee. A DM who plans on just running modules will have all the information he needs in the DMG. Should he decide to come up with his own adventures in the future, he just needs to pick up the third book.

For everyone else, it doesn't make a difference since you'll still get the same content, just distributed differently. In fact, it might even make adventure preparation easier since you only need one book to do it.

Thoughts?

Heck yeah! Then I could save money by not buying that DMG. I am biased because of experience. I would love to see Basic D&D for the players who have never played a RPG before. Then there would be the Advanced for players who have played before. The advanced would have a much lower page count because so much of the information in D&D core books is printed under the assumption of talking to a brand new player. Which is tiresome if you have read that same rehashed and reworded stuff several times.

Or perhaps an introductory set like the red box be the place were the default assumption is "new player". The core rulebooks could assume then, it's reader is an existing player.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I like the two book model presented by Serendipity - then as the first "expansion" or what-have-you an encounter's book as GM Dave described.

You have the challenges you need (monsters, traps etc) in the DMG, but for those that want more, the encounter/challenges books are there.

The thing I absolutely do not want to see at all - any core book/beginners box/etc that is only up to "X" level. The core rules should have the rules needed to run a character from beginning to end, aside from a complete campaign changer like the 3rd ed ELH.

As for size of book, please keep them the standard 8 1/2 x 11 full size. I find the smaller digest books difficult to read. Guess I'm gettin' Old. Given I host when we game, the size of the books don't matter - I don't have to drag them anywhere.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I would, though, warn against trying to make the core books too noob friendly. D&D needs to be noob friendly. But the core rulebooks should not worry about being too noob friendly. A really good introductory box set should worry about being noob friendly.

I completely disagree. I mean yes, a good intro product is definitely necessary, but the core books themselves should be good intro products. A new player should be able to pick up a Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide and be able to learn and play the game (something that, in my experience, is impossible in 3e and 4e). They shouldn't feel like they have to buy a starter set before they can graduate to the "real game." This isn't Pokémon cards.