D&D 5E Return of the Fighter/Mage ... Swords & Sorcery characters

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Correction: you don't normally get to add cha bonus to your offhand attacks, since your pact weapon is in your main hand. But a warlock with polearm master will get a lot of benefit from that 1d4 offhand hit at higher levels, since it DOES get to add your charisma bonus as well as hex damage.

 

[beefcake_wizard]

Feat tax to get a subclass to work, and that cast + attack comes at the cost of all your extra attacks... still fails to impress me..

No feat tax. Withdrawing or stowing a weapon is a 'free' action. But with the feat it's not needed, but you gain the ability to cast as opportunity attack and advantage to concentration. Casting isn't necessary to make an eldritch actually super good at combat, but it offers him the versatility and flavor of caster without the penalty many of the gish classes take to DPR.

It's his available slots that are the problem, as he will get 3rd level spells when there's already Forcecages and such starting to fly around. It just seems like anyone could accomplish the same by carrying a few scrolls around.

Not seeing the pervasiveness of scrolls in this as may have been in other editions.

Not to mention that it'd still be better to just keep blasting with Eldritch Blast in most melee, if Eldritch Blast is what you've spent your resources on. Because you don't need to spend invocations on getting multiple attacks with it, and if it's just one melee enemy, you can push them back with the first hit (as you have the knockback Invocation, if this is your focus). 4 attacks at disadvantage and all your boost focus (Invocations, Hex) on them is better than 2 attacks without disadvantage.

Warlocks get 8 invocations. Not sure the 'expense' of 1 or 2 invocations is necessarily a drag for someone who wants it. The solution you present, spend another invocation on Eldritch, so that you don't have to spend one on blade doesn't make the advantage any clearer. What if there are two enemies? or three within 5'? What about cover? More over, the real numerical advantage of Eldritch blast in close combat (within 5') becomes significant at level 17, and only then. Why not just swap out your blade pact invocations for other ones then?

More to the point, the OP is asking for good gish options, not 'show me a gish option where mixed melee and casting is the absolute most optimal way to play'. A blade pact warlock that takes a couple point DPR reduction at mid-levels so that he can do both isn't 'wasting his time.

And if the Eldritch Blast has to deal with cover (which the opponent will get pushed out from with the first successful hit), that means he is at a range where the sword could not reach the enemy at all, so... I'm not sure how that factors in.

Well, if they have cover, say shooting through an open window.... You run up, and stab him through the open window.

Honestly, Bards get enough spell copying to pick up smites and whatever else spells they want. Valor is the fighter/mage option, but Lore is the stronger option (because it gets to copy more stuff and earlier). I just think they can solve most cases by going through their spells first, then using physical attacking as the last 'nah, cannot be bothered to spend any of my hundred slots on this' resort, because they ARE full casters. And if they have slots available, and the melee situation IS an actual threat, well, melee proximity doesn't hinder spells with save.

Again, lore may be a better option (and I'm not sure that it is), but in the same way a free Dinner with desert may be better then a free dinner, but in this case the OP isn't looking for desert. He looking for gish style class, and Valor is better at that.

Ranger doesn't get much, and besides most of what he gets, isn't exactly magical. Like, shoot many arrows as their lv5 spell, such magics.

I disagree. Ranger get some amazing spells, (some seemingly balanced for ranger's level not druids). Lightning arrow, Spike Growth, and Conjure animals to name a few.

Monk does have the elemental path, which might work for OP's criteria. Admittedly, it looks weak (just different variants of elemental blasts), but yeah, it should count. Curious to see if people can make that work.

Monks, like many of the classes have subtle combinations built into the full range of their abilities that combine really effectively. An ongoing Gust of Wind, combined with a guy that that can essentially move 80' a round and still take an action is pretty good. Add in the mobility feat and a monk can continuously attack and runaway, with few things being able to get to him.

 

[sdafljawe]

I've always liked fighter/mages. I was curious about the FTR/WIZ compared to the FTR (Eldritch Knight), I created a spreadsheet with level-by-level stats for comparison.


Tab 1 is a Fighter (Eldritch Knight)/Wizard (Abjurer).
Tab 2 is a straight Fighter (Eldritch Knight).

Both characters are High Elves with a Noble background.

I realize some of them are pretty obvious, but here are some of the main differences at 20th level:
- FTR has 90 more hit points than FTR/WIZ
- FTR has 2x more melee attacks (each one is +4 more to attack and +2 damage)
- FTR gets more uses of Indomitable and Action Surge
- FTR/WIZ has many more spell slots (7th level spells) compared to FTR (4th level spells), and can take advantage of Arcane Recovery
- FTR/WIZ has many more spells that are useful in combat
- FTR/WIZ has better spell attack / spell DC for combat spells
- FTR/WIZ has nifty Arcane Ward (from Abjuration specialty) for soaking some hit points (albeit not much)

Overall, FTR can take a lot more punishment (and dish it out in melee), but FTR/WIZ has a lot more utility and can still get out of some pretty tight jams.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxe4WSr09dcdbXFlZ0JoZ2s2ck0/edit?usp=sharing

 

[77IM]

You realize that proficiency bonus stacks, right? It's based on total character level. So both of these characters should have the same weapon attack and spell attack and save DC.

 

[TwoSix]

You realize that proficiency bonus stacks, right? It's based on total character level. So both of these characters should have the same weapon attack and spell attack and save DC.

I think the difference here is that the F/W is boosting Int earlier and more often than the pure Fighter. His sheet has prof bonus listed correctly.

 

[sdafljawe]

I think the difference here is that the F/W is boosting Int earlier and more often than the pure Fighter. His sheet has prof bonus listed correctly.

that's correct; since the F/W is more reliant on spells to survive and deal damage, I chose to boost Int so that more spells can be prepared at once, and those spells will have a higher DC. The pure Fighter just puts a bunch of ability increases into STR and CON.

 

[Warskull]

I think Valor Bard may be your best option for a caster/attacker. They get two attacks without multiclassing, access to a variety of spells, and they can steal a few spells from other classes.

A second option is Paladin/Bard if you want to pick up that second attack earlier. Have the bard go lore for the extra spells, pick your second attack up from Paladin and all of a sudden you are a buff/aura machine.

 

[Prism]

It is also probably better for the fighter/wizard to use war magic rather than have two melee attacks much of the time. It can also be better than 3 melee attacks.

Poison spray scales really well damage wise and can be used in combat. Acid splash or shocking grasp for creatures immune to poison. The other combat cantrips are ranged

 

[sdafljawe]

My only hangup with the F/W is... I think if you cast a spell within reach of an enemy they get an Opportunity Attack, right? Or, am I reading the rules wrong.

 

[Juriel]

My only hangup with the F/W is... I think if you cast a spell within reach of an enemy they get an Opportunity Attack, right? Or, am I reading the rules wrong.

Only moving away without Disengage grants an OA.