Returning Magic Weapons + Full Attack

[Lonely Tylenol]

Doesn't mean you can't catch them. I can hold a handful of knives in my left hand and throw them one by one with my right. Why can't I catch them all with my left hand?

 

[argo]

The problem is when more than two return, and you've only got two hands... because they all return before your turn. They don't come in in a nice, evenly-spaced sequence while you're capable of dealing with one before the next arrives. They all arrive before you can act.

-Hyp.

Yes but you need a free hand to catch the returning weapon, not an empty hand. Free is one of those game terms that isn't very well defined and is left up to DM judgement. For example, you can hold an object (like a javalin) in the same hand that you have a light shield equiped. Shouldn't you then be able to catch a javalin that is tossed to you using you shield hand. Saying that free=empty is certainly logical but not exclusively so. I probably would't let someone catch multiple greatswords in one hand but I would have little problem having someone catch multiple daggers.

Besides, who says that if you throw multiple returning daggers that they all don't return neatly stacked and in a position where it is easy to grab all of them at once? It's magic after all.

 

[Ezieer]

So how do you catch any? They return before your next turn, it's a free action to catch 'em, but you can't take a free action outside your turn, and they return outside your turn. Ergo, you can't catch a returning weapon -- no?

Free Action: An action that takes no appreciable time at all. You can take as many free actions during your turn as your DM will allow, but you cannot take free actions during someone else's turn.

1 free action: A fairly rare casting time. When you cast a spell with a casting time this short, you still can use a standard or full-round action during your turn to cast another spell,. You cannot, however, cast another spell with a casting time of 1 free action. Casting a spell as a free action doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Normally, you can use a free action only during your own turn, but some spells with casting times of 1 free action can be cast anytime (feather fall, for example). In this case, casting the spell during someone else's turn doesn't count as the one spell you can cast as a free action during your next turn.

So applying this to catching the weapon... you still have a full round action available to you after catching the weapons. However, the DM can put a restriction on how many free actions you can take (catching each weapon and/or how many you can hold in your hand.
I would rule the following. One in the throwing hand and a few in the other as per weapon.

Dart/Shuriken (less than 1 lb.) - 1/4
Dagger (less than 2lb. to 1 lb) - 1/3
Bolas/Javelin/Light Hammer/Throwing Axe (less than 3lb. to 2 lb) - 1/2
Club/Net/Spear/Trident (3lbs or more) - 1/1​

Note that Mithril weapons now have advantages as they reduce weight. Finally a use for Mithril weapons... Of course this was always the case with Darkwood armor... but now also with weapons.

 

[phadeout]

Well, I guess one thing we all have to remember is they are magic items and this is D&D. I mean come on, if an archer can accurately shoot 4 arrows in one pull of the string (realisticly impossible due to the way a bow string is shaped - and if you wanna argue about that, make a new thread on Manyshot), I think that you could catch multiple returning daggers/darts at the very least if they are Magic, especially darts! I guess if you feel that a rule needs to be added, then make one, like the quick sheath or something. If you don't feel it necessary, great.

I guess if you want, you could create a new magic item, like a Glove of Darts, that you can use to conjure/create an unlimited number of darts (or maybe even Javelins, Daggers if you like) and just keep throwing them, one round after they are thrown, they disappear. Kinda like the "ever full Quiver" magic items that are very cliche in fantasy... The items created could even be made from something else, like Ice or Force.

 

[aco175]

That is sort of like the way I always ruled them. After they hit, they fade out and return to the owner's hand just before the next turn. Some items, like daggers return to the sheath. I mostly did this to do away with people trying to catch them and intercept their flying path. Never seemed to have a problem with it. Of course, after you throw a weapon you now have nothing to defend yourself with.

 

[Klaus]

I just make 'em turn around and return.

Reading a Fafhrd & Gray Mouser comic where Faf uses a returning hand axe (against a devourer in Bazaar of the Bizarre) just makes it too much fun!

Faf (handing the axe to Mouser): Amuse yourself, clown. And here's your slapstick!

 

[CapnZapp]

Looking at this from the year :2017:, I am slightly amused.

Of course "Returning" is only cumbersome and unfun if you can't use a single weapon for all your attacks in any given turn. Not to mention if you forgot you couldn't move, or if you no longer have a free hand. Cumbersome. Unfun.

Luckily, in 5th edition this was fixed, since the Dwarven Thrower sets a sensible precedent:

"Immediately after the attack, the weapon flies back to your hand."

You throw it to make an attack, and then you... wait for it - hold it again, ready for your next attack. You never have to catch it, you never have to keep track of from where you threw it, you never have to consider what each hand is holding, and you never have to have more than one weapon.

All this thread's questions simply evaporate. Talk about an improvement!

A generalized "returning" D&D magic item quality should be exactly like this, IMNSHO, regardless of edition.

 

[Greenfield]

Consider this version of the Full Attack:

I take some (but not all) of my iterative attacks with my spear/axe/other weapon, and finish off the set by throwing the weapon at an opponent.

Since I took a Full Attack sequence I can't move more than 5 feet in the round, so the "can't move" thing really isn't much of a penalty. I probably want to take that five foot step in the middle of my attack sequence anyway by stepping back from the person/people/things I was in close melee with, so they don't AoO me when I throw the weapon.

Next round it returns to me at the start of my action and I'm ready to go again, another full-attack sequence.

Reading the full text of the ability though it's clear to me that it returns on your next action.

As for three returning Javelins? Not an issue: Throw all three in your action. Next action you catch the first one and drop it immediately (swift/free action to drop something), then catch the other two.

Now can you repeat that free action in the same round if, for example, you are using a shield? Or if you have more than three weapons thrown? That's up to the DM.

We used to joke about the "Free Dismount" teleport maneuver: If you can make a DC20 Ride check your mount/dismount action from a horse is considered a free/swift action. So if you have a line of horses, side by side, and can repeat that same "free" mount/dismount, you can travel from one end of that line to the other using essentially no time.

So there's good reason to limit the number of times a "free" action can be repeated. Dropping returning weapons would be a good one to allow, IMHO.

Similarly, shifting a weapon like a hand axe or javelin from one hand to the other might also be counted as "free" for situations like this, thus allowing a skilled thrower to catch with one hand and accumulate with the other: A person can reasonably hold a couple of javelin in one hand, if the number is sane. (You won't hold 20, but you could hold two or three.)

If you couldn't then throwers would be limited to two hurled weapons: The act of drawing the weapon is considered a Move action, so you have to be able to hold several if you plan to throw them all in a round.

 

[Random Bystander]

Windows Vista would be a good time to release some electronic tools. I mean, official ones. Does anyone know if it's gonna be any good?

[sblock]Just to mess with the timeline some more...[/sblock]

 

[Greenfield]

Hey, it's Halloween season. Thread-necromancy is seasonal, isn't it?